William Lane Craig vs Lewis Wolpert 8/12

Is God a Delusion? Professors William Lane Craig and Lewis Wolpert debate.

Moderated by BBC's John Humphrys.

Hosted by the University and Colleges Christian Fellowship (UCCF)

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[deadlyrhythm]

Craig can use science and logic to quite good effect but I think he falters when he must describe God as a timeless, necessary, self existent being and then expect it to fall in with rational science. This is a result from conjecture of the Kalam Cosmological Argument and makes no scientific attempt to explain how such a being might exist. While he rationally criticises of the atheists proposed use of the infinite, he refutes it with an infinite being.

[jerrygord3131]

I don't like how Craig starts out with "We haven't heard any evidence against the existence of God", as that is not evidence in favor of it. However, I appreciate his philosophical ideas, and this is where he beats Wolpert in my opinion. Wolpert cannot accept the idea of transendence, thus he concludes his beliefs on the origin of the universe with "we don't know." I DO appreciate Wolpert's honesty, as this is something most Christian apologists won't say when they should.

[utubepunk]

One wonders how WLC would have turned out if he were raised in the Middle East or India during his formative teenage years. Odd how belief in god & one's eternal after-life is determined by their location of birth.

[shizzleman8]

@nyscholartist Probably the word Gehenna. Hell isn't a word in the Bible. Jesus teaching on hell by Tentmaker is a good resource for the point I was trying to make. It's an image problem put in our brains from Dante's inferno. The meaning of words change over time. For centuries the word evolution meant 'the unraveling of a scroll' very much the same word as creation. Sounds like Confuscious had it all together, maybe if he was resurrected we never would have heard of Jesus? Only Love.

[nyscholartist]

@shizzleman8 My idea of God is that of a postulate of practical reason in the Kantian sense. Thanks for the video suggestion.

[nyscholartist]

@shizzleman8 So saying that the Bible teaches that hell is eternal is anti-Semitic? In the English translation, Jesus says more than once in the Gospels, "Depart into the eternal fire ..." Go tell the translators about their anti-Semitism, not me. What you cite cannot serve as part of a case for Christianity. That is one of the formulations of the Golden Rule, which can be found in the Analects of Confucius, long before Jesus lived.

[shizzleman8]

@nyscholartist If you "conviently" remove that part from yourself that makes you prejudice and anti-semetic, you'd be on my side.

The "case" for Christianity is the case for loving people as much as yourself from a pure heart with true motives. Everything else is religious junk. I'm not adherent to sin of any type, original or otherwise. We have due process of law today, let's keep it that way. You'll really like this video: dfpolis #15 God & Scientific Explanation - Existence Proof

[nyscholartist]

@shizzleman8 No, I'm not Jewish. Even if you conveniently remove the bit about eternal torture, that doesn't help your case much. The doctrine of original sin is equally preposterous. Anyway, I think that it's possible to have a conception of God without all of the irrationalities and barbarities of the monotheisms.

[shizzleman8]

@nyscholartist I guess you're not a Jew either? There is no word in the Bible for what you're referring to about everlasting torture. The Hebrew words mistranslated for hell (Greek to English) are Hades, Sheol & Gehenna. Jesus as a Jewish Rabbi and supporter of Moses would hold to the Hebrew doctrine of eternal life not torture. Chist's message to man only varies from the Hebrew point of an eye for an eye to "Love your enemies, and do good for them that hate you". Hardly eternal suffering.

[shizzleman8]

@tenbear5 Dr. Wolpert kept on arguing for Dr. Craig. YouTube user suvarenee has a video: Faith is not evidence, but this is Wolpert's point repeated over and over that faith is evidence, that people who pray and believe live longer and healthier lives as a whole. The first 16 years of my Christian walk I for the most part attended church. We got taught how to love with a pure motive. How diaboloical.