Re: Ape Genius

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Science & Technology

Tags:

• Re:
• Ape
• Genius

[xplicitvio]

Geerup always manages to make himself look like an idiot

[Cosmodot256]

Maybe we should put together a cartoon that they could better understood. Frankly, I don't know how to get the idea through a Creationists skull.

Is it really so hard for them to just try to understand it before they dismiss something that seems to threaten their faith.

[shayneby]

Dude! You are a fool.

[XSC3]

I mistyped that below... Paul himself was a contemporary of Jesus. So we can right say his letters were "contemporary accounts" though they were written about two decades after Jesus died (still in the lifetime of Jesus' apostles). Josephus was a contemporary of Paul, and a NEAR contemporary of Jesus (Jesus having died about a decade before he was born). Antiquities was written less than three decades after Paul's death.

[XSC3]

Anyway, ALL history is "hearsay" from a certain point of view... and how do we know even ancient autobiographies were written by the person they claim to be? That's no argument at all. Rather, it's simply hyperskepticism adopted by amateur "skeptics" to undermine Christianity. Non-Christian experts who actually know this stuff refute them (like Bart Ehrman, the late Michael Grant, Geza Vermes, etc)

[XSC3]

Paul (d. 67 AD) and Josephus (b. 37 d. 100 AD) were INDEED contemporaries, cypherphage, lol. In fact, Josephus died at about the time the last of the NT texts were completed.

Paul was a contemporary of Jesus, having himself been born in about the year 5 (Jesus being born about ten years prior).

[XSC3]

Where did the sayings (not just the parables) of Jesus come from then, if they didn't come form an eyewitness? The major scholars in the relevant fields agree a core of them go back to Jesus himself.

The mention of James is not contested as a genuine passage in Josephus by any modern expert I'm aware of. Just because some internet "skeptics" disagree, doesn't bother me a bit. They'll deny anything they don't like.

[cypherphage]

The "Q" hypothesis is that a sayings gospel or document existed and was a source of material for Luke and Mathew regarding parables, not that its unknown author was an eyewitness of Jesus.

The problem with trying to use the Antiquities is that both the mention of James and the Testimonium Flavianum are suspect of at least interpolation. Further, Josephus himself was not a contemporary of Paul or the alleged Jesus, rendering the passages to the possibility of being mere hearsay. Try again.

[XSC3]

But let's not turn this otherwise stimulating thread about nibbling of spears into a debate about the historical Jesus. Somebody always has to throw in those claims... that Jesus never existed, and that the Bible is a work of fiction. IF you want to discuss these issues with me in a civilized manner, using logic and evidence, PLEASE send me a private message (PM). Good luck!

[XSC3]

Again, to add to Paul, even the most liberal of modern critical scholars feel that the four Gospels contain sayings that were actually spoken by Jesus. I'm sure you've heard of the "Q" hypothesis? The Gospel writers, according to tradition, were associates of the apostles themselves (and considering when they were written, this is plausible enough), and relayed oral tradition from Jesus.

[XSC3]

Interesting you should bring up relics, much less ones with "divine powers." I don't see what that has to do with the historical Jesus. There are certainly many claimed relics of Jesus and the saints which are alleged to have powers. I don't see how relics are required to validate his existence. We don't have bodies (or body parts) for most figures of antiquity. You don't need to produce bones or a corpse to prove someone existed.

[XSC3]

The letters of Paul are contemporary with Jesus. And before you say "he never met him!" he had close associations with Jesus' own followers (Cephas aka Simon Peter and John) as well as Jesus' brother James (whom Flavius Josephus cites as a historical figure).

I didn't say because some people believe in God, God must exist, strawman, cypherphage. I was just pointing out that modern day people don't believe JUST BECAUSE some old book says they should.