The Great Debate: Lennox vs Shermer 4/10

Does God Exist? Professor John lennox's opening address B

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[mike10121996]

@ImBackAJ20101 " I fear a god may exist and may punish me?" No, obviously you missed the earlier recording. He said atheist can be good. His point is that you have no reason to think your actions are GOOD as opposed to just ARE. Check your facts before you call people retards.

[rovingdesertfox]

Not sure how Lennox can say the resurrection is a fact. Because it says so in the bible? Mmmm....Even if events unfolded as they were recorded in that book, because the stone was rolled away, this is evidence for resurrection? There must be several other possibilities that could explain how a body is missing and the stone is rolled away; I would venture that resurrection would be WWWWWAAAAAAAAAYYY down the list of options.

[rovingdesertfox]

@theonlydode and we are not and therein lies OUR problem. Baloney. And who would expect children to be perfect anyway? You are right religion is not perfect, because they are taking advantage of sheeple who don't do their own research and homework into these matters. My belief is that God is love and Infinite and Unconditional love at that. So you see, there is nothing to get right or someone to please. This frees us and kills religion once and for all.

[rovingdesertfox]

@theonlydode What you are not seeing is that your defiant facts are only your programmed beliefs. (How many times have you been in church hearing that these things were true when they left out the little detail about how it is all really based on faith, and that even they don't know). If you are truly honest, you will admit this, if not, you are swayed/being controlled by someone else's story. And, how do you/we know God is perfect? And we hear that God is perfect continued

[theonlydode]

@rovingdesertfox There is a defined line between "preferred beliefs" and "facts." Personality with my faith the line, for the most part, is non-existant.  As I've often said God may be perfect but religion certainly is not. No one is forcing you to believe. All I can do is present the defiant facts, and let your personal belief take its destined course.

[rovingdesertfox]

@theonlydode It's not ignorant at all, but a logical question to be asked, but of course you will have to say what you did to not answer the question. Your 'facts' are not facts at all, but your preferred beliefs. Makes no difference to me. I rejected the religion many years ago and would rather die than give that organization/corporation of programmed mind control one penny. Any you can also believe what you want, and the facts will always be true on all accounts.

[theonlydode]

@rovingdesertfox That's the same ignorant statement calming jesus was a "fictional character." One of the most common misconceptions of Jesus is that he is only documented in the bible. Hundreds if not thousands of Greek / Roman writings mention and often depict the life of Jesus. Secondly there were hundreds of manuscripts on Jesus, but only the most reputable were chosen for the accepted scripture. Believe what you want, but the facts remain true on many accounts.

[rovingdesertfox]

@theonlydode That's wonderful; now we just need to determine whether Jesus appeared in his spirit body/astral form, or in fact in a physical body. Again, just because something is written in a book does not confirm anything. You state that since his disciples were brutally murdered, etc, etc. Other than just having faith that that is true, how do you know it happened? right, there is not way to know, Sorry.

[theonlydode]

@rovingdesertfox As Lennox has previously said he believes in Christianity because of the overwhelming evidence supporting the existence and teachings of Jesus Christ. Given the resurrection is certainly less documented historically, the accuracy of Jesus's disciples life and death are very well documented in multiple historical writings. For instance 10 of the disciples were brutally murdered for sticking to their notion that Jesus was indeed God. The resurrection helped confirm.

[J0shReed]

@franciso7 First define happiness, then define hope, and finally demonstrate how hope is a necessary prerequisite.

An implicit point I made was that Lennox said there would be no hope. I argue that he hasn't said what he means by hope. Without God, I personally would still have hope. I also argue that hope can't be demonstrated to be a necessary concept (must exist). This is difficult to do since it is self defined. If it's self defined, how can it be used in an objective argument?

[franciso7]

@J0shReed

See I'm not trolling, nore am I angry. I dont understand how you can question the IMPORTANCE of hope and pretend to be interested in happiness. Doesnt make sense to me. I'm not interested (yet) in discussing of the origins of hope. Thats the discussion you was having with that other person. My point is the contradiction in qiestioning the importance of hope and seeking for happiness. Anyway you can end the discussionif you want. I for my part am still interested.

[J0shReed]

@franciso7 So you can't defend hope except to get angry that I question it? I'm not getting into a semantics fight either. Okay. Enough said on your part. Happy trolling.