The Continuing Catastrophe - Coming soon - 23 May 08

To conclude Al Jazeera's special coverage of the 60th anniversary of the creation of Israel, or al Nakba (the catastrophe) as it is known to Palestinians Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera's senior political analyst, will host a discussion from London on the global political ramifications of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

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• israel
• palestine
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[BobMonkfish]

England has water problems - that's why it drowns Welsh villages. Scotland doesn't.

But the point is, that Israel, like the south west USA, most of Australia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Chad etc is going to have MAJOR problems soon. Ditto Central Asia which still suffers from desertification caused by Soviet irrigation plans.

Will Kinneret (Sea of Galilee) become the next Aral Sea?

[BobMonkfish]

Yes you can. The refugee camps STILL exist. The Israelis still complain (rightly) about the Holocaust. It is not ancient history, but recent history.

"I met americans in Israel who said they want to move here because they've never felt safer."

To be frank, the Americans that I've met in Israel have tended to be loonies. There is absolutely nothing in Israel that they couldn't get by moving somewhere else in the USA.

[rulllar]

you cannot make an argument about the rights and wrong of 60 years ago based on 2008's strategic situation. It makes no sense. In any case, when in Israel, I feel far far safer walking around than I do in the UK. I met americans in Israel who said they want to move here because they've never felt safer.. you can repeat your points over and over.. but on the ground, many people (not all, but many) feel the difference.

[rulllar]

You don't think in the next 10-15 years ISrael can easily build several massive sea-water purification systems? There's already one off ashkelon. But in any case... this is bad reasoning to try to unjustify Israel's creation by saying that now, 60 years on, it faces water problems which is a worldwide phenomenon.

I'm in the UK and we have SOME water problems.. not to Israel's situation but it's more and more every year.

[BobMonkfish]

You do have serious water problems.

Kinneret (the Sea of Galilee to most of the world) is being used to water the Negev. That area is not (yet) desert, but the simple fact is that Israel may well face environmental collapse within the next fifty years as well (probably along with much of California, Arizona/Nevada and Australia). Combined with the fact that the region is unstable, it is not much of a haven at all.

[rulllar]

i was there a month ago.

Yes it is below that level. So is the dead sea (although thats part-west bank part-Jordan too). But a lake going down doesn't prove that parts of the negev arn't less desert-based. The kinneret area is also green, it's no desert.

But Israel is starting to deal with low-rainfall now by building sea-water purification systems. It takes time but it's on it's way.

[BobMonkfish]

Have you seen Kinneret recently? That's where the water for the Negev is coming from. It's way below the level it was.

[rulllar]

c'mon! Even making the desert bloom is coming to an end? Thats not true. While the large scale projects have scaled back and there have been a few setbacks, I see every time i'm there new parks and things constructed on what was once a big dune. You only have to use your eyes for a few minutes while there to see the changes.

In any case I've already stated I think you are very wrong on the issue of Judaism today vs before Israel. But your opinion, your choice.

[BobMonkfish]

Maybe that's because you're only looking at one side of the story. Zionism has only achieved one thing, and that is reuniting Jews with the places most associated with their religion. However, it has come at a massive price, and is not the rosy "land without people for a people without land". Even "making the desert bloom" is coming to an end, as Israel realises it only has so much water to sprinkle on the Negev...

[rulllar]

This discussion is becoming a neverending repetition. I've said my thoughts. I didn't say genetic testing should ever be a reason for a state in any way or form.. you keep altering what I say to mean something else.

In any case I can do little more than again repeat myself in order for you to again misrepresent what I say which for some reason you keep doing.

Take care. It was interesting but there's not much more to say I feel.