The Revival of the Kibbutz

Kibbutz Ein Hashofet

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Revival
• Kibbutz
• Viva
• Press

[funkyalfonso]

I'm so glad I came accross this video. It appears the movement can continue with the sort of intelligence these people have used not to compromise their beliefs whilst still being pragmatic. I've seen vids of other kibbutzim which leave me depressed. Mazel tov.

[AbuAvital]

I was there for ulpan, great days.

[mangojuice7]

Let me ask you a question. If you were an Arab in a refugee camp, do you really think you would feel about Israel as you currently do? How does a newly arrived Israeli settler stack up morally against a refugee?

To my mind it is those who resist the "tribal pull" and when necessary criticise their own who are the most honourable, people like Oskar Schindler and Donald Woods. Alot of Brits pine for the days of Empire but I am not one of them. We were the ones who invented concentration camps.

[mangojuice7]

Yes there are a million other quotes backing up Ben-Gurion's position, such as: "Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselvesThe country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."

Why should I care? I'm not Arab. Should I have ignored the black South Africans suffering under apartheid? I'm not black. Should the Allies have cared about Jews at Auschwitz? Not my people, but yours. You tell me.

[mangojuice7]

This is completely disingenuous, and you know it. Ben-Gurion says "That is natural: we have taken their country".

Not "They mistakenly think we have taken their country."

Not even "They think we have taken their country".

Simply "We have taken their country".

And whats more he says that he himself wouldn't make peace if he were Arab, so he is agreeing with them! If you read the interpretation of the person quoting him (Goldman) you will see it tallies with the above.

Nice try.

[mangojuice7]

Here's your answer, from Israel's founding father: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: WE HAVE TAKEN THEIR COUNTRY. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but 2000 years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and STOLEN THEIR COUNTRY

David Ben-Gurion

[mangojuice7]

Fine, then according to your warped logic we should let the African Khojas reclaim India. We should let the Javanese of Surinam reclaim Bali. We should let black Americans take over Gabon. No matter how you spin it, theft is theft. Any crime can be explained but there is a difference between explanation and justification. The fact reamins you stole their country.

[mangojuice7]

I don't think that I, or Gandhi, or the Arabs or anyone else would have any problem with the ideal of a Jewish homeland if you hadn't established it on another people's land by way of forced expulsions, violence and ethnic cleansiing. You did to the Arabs what Hadrian did to you 2000 yrs ago.

I heard Theo Herzl originally proposed establishing Israel in north Africa by buying vacant land. IF ONLY! You would see the whole world flying the Israeli flag if that had happened, myself included.

[mangojuice7]

They should live where they were born, like most people. As Mahatma Gandhi said in 1936 "The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs."

[mangojuice7]

The Ottomans and Brits were colonial rulers, not owners, there is a difference. The Arabs you expelled owned the land for generations, they had the title deeds. Their villages were humdreds of years old. What the Roman did to the Jews was 2000 years ago. Since violent expulsion is your justification for stealing their country, the Arabs are equally entitled to reclaim it too, and so we can look forward to perpetual conflict.