The Great Tribulation Past or Future Part 6

During American Vision's Worldview Super Conference, Gary Demar and Thomas Ice
debated the Great Tribulation: Past or Future?

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• Tribulation
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[Bigturns33]

Israel was called a whore, she whored after other gods read the prophets. Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. "The great city is also referenced again in Rev 17 and 18 the great city is Israel the city where the loard was crucified its spiritually called sodom egypt, baboyon the great whore!

[rkg62976]

@selviskk "Seven kings —seven sorts of government. Rome was governed by kings, consuls, tribunes, decemviri, dictators, emperors who were pagan, and emperors who were Christian. Five of these were extinct when this prophecy was written; one was then in being, that is, the pagan emperor; and the other, that is, the Christian emperor, was yet to come.." [Mathew Henry (d.1714), Commentary on Rev.17:10]

*Mathew Henry is simply being a consistent, Protestant Historicist.

[selviskk]

@rkg62976 I never said she did, she is Jerusalem, specifically the temple, destroyed by the beast (Rome). Anyway, its 0400 in the morning here in Norway, so I'll think I'm slowly passing out. It was fun talking to you. I recommend ''The Divorce of Israel'' (20CDs) lecture by Gentry on the Book of Revelation for a more complete preteristic view. I used to believe the harlot was the vatican but not any more...You take care now, stay with Christ and God bless and good night brother....

[rkg62976]

@rkg62976 The Jews in Jerusalem around 70 A.D. did not "reign over the kings of the earth" (Rev.17:18).

Adam Clarke provides some helpful insight on Rev.17: "That KINGDOM which the woman has over the kings of the Latin world, or secular Latin empire, or in other words THE KINGDOM of the Latin Church, is the numbered Latin kingdom or Romish hierarchy..." [Adam Clarke (d.1832), Commentary on Rev.17:18]

[rkg62976]

@selviskk The "scarlet harlot" cannot refer to any time period of pagan Rome. Rev.17 refers to this entity as a "woman", which is only used of a "church" that professes the true God; obviously, pagan Rome, although very religious, was polytheistic. Not only this, but the fact that she is an "harlot" (whore), refers to the fact that this professing Christian church is, in fact, an apostate church.

V.18 tells us that "the woman" is "that great city, which REIGNETH OVER THE KINGS OF THE EARTH".

[selviskk]

@rkg62976 ''They are also seven kings. Five have fallen [first five emperors of Rome: Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius] one is [Nero, the Beast], the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while [Galba, ruled only 6 months].'' (Rev 17:10) Nero ordered Vespasian to destroy the temple, i.e. the Beast killed the harlot.

[selviskk]

@rkg62976 Yes, no problem with that, the Beast is Rome of course, but Rev 13:18 says the Beast is a man, hence specifically the ruler of Rome, and he does not fit description antichrist. Also, the harlot rides the beast, but the beast turns on her, meaning she and the beast are separate entities, neither are antichrist. The ten horns of the beast are on seven heads (Rev 13:1). The seven heads are seven kings (Rev 17:9). This fits Rome perfectly before the destruction of the Temple.

[rkg62976]

@selviskk 2Thes.2:7-8, Paul speaks of a "hindering power" that needed to be "taken out of the way" before the Antichrist ("man of sin, son of perdition") could arise. What was this hindering power?

Dr. Gill gives the proper answer (in light of Dan.2 & 7): "only he who now letteth, will let, until he be taken out of the way; that is, the Roman empire and Roman emperors, and which were by degrees entirely removed, and so made way for the revelation of this wicked one..."

[rkg62976]

@selviskk So, the "little horn" would continue for 1260 years (Dan.7:25). The "sea beast" (Rev.13:5) continues for 1260 years. Clearly Daniel's "little horn", and John's "sea beast" are the same entity.

What does the "sea" represent? Notice that Dan.7's "beasts" also arose out of the "sea" (Dan.7:3)? Rev.17:15 tells us that the "waters" (or, "sea") represents "peoples, multitudes, and nations, and tongues". In other words: a densely populated area-- Papal Rome.

[rkg62976]

@selviskk Of the ten Germanic/barbarian tribes which took advantage of Rome's downfall, three were "plucked up" before the "little horn" could arise. These three were: 1) The Heruli-- led by king Odovacar, usurped Romulus Augustulus in 476 A.D. The Heruli were defeated in 493 A.D. by the Ostrogothic leader, Theodoric.

2) The Vandals-- led by Genseric, were defeated by Justinian's general Belisarius in 534 A.D.

3) The Ostrogoths withdrew from Rome in 538 A.D.