George Ought to Help

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Free PDF books:

'For a New Liberty'
http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

'The Machinery of Freedom'
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

'Lessons for the Young Economist'
http://mises.org/books/lessons_for_the_young_economist_murphy.pdf

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Translation credits:
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Dutch - Kassen
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[bitbutter]

@ranting55 "Our intuitions about use of force have nothing to do with what entitlement theory happens to be true,"

None of these theories can be true imo. We adhere to a theory of property based on other considerations: Does it align well with our intuitions in most cases? How well does it serve our other goals? (conflict avoidance etc).

Which theory of property do you adhere to? (whether or not you believe it to be true in an absolute sense).

[BlazedBastar666]

@TheMagneticChicken They bought the segways with tax money because it is better if they do not have to go through the difficult process of walking while collecting taxes. Don't fret, it's for the greater good.

[TheMagneticChicken]

Why are the agents on segways.

[ranting55]

@AussieAustrianBlog I've been using bitbutter's terminology. He makes a distinction between mere possession (he uses an example of the pickpocket that possesses your wallet) and true legitimate ownership. So, in a simple example, George does not own the car that he currently possesses if he stole it.

[FreedomFighter1131]

We can get to the hows of Voluntaryism after we accept the moral principle behind it. No one asked how would homes be cleaned or farms plowed if we got rid of slavery. Likewise no one should ask how would roads be provided or contracts enforced without the state. First we must see that no group of people should be allowed to hold a monopoly on the use of force. No one group should be able to impose rules on everyone else. No one group has the right to rule others just because people say they do.

[bitbutter]

@SaucerheadTharp "by virtue of living in a society which holds the legal right (power) to tax, you agree to be taxed."

Would you also say that if you live in a society that has the power to deport and kill you, you agree to be deported and killed at the discretion of the majority? if not why not?

"Is it right (good) that you be punished? Yes. Why? Because if people can opt out of paying taxes, no taxes would be collected."

You're implying that the non-collection of taxes is undesirable. Why?

[SaucerheadTharp]

@bitbutter Fine. Is it right (good) to take something from someone else against their will. No.

However, by virtue of living in a society which holds the legal right (power) to tax, you agree to be taxed. Is it right (good) for you to not pay your legally liable taxes? No. Are you punished if you fail to play your legally liable taxes? Yes. Is it right (good) that you be punished? Yes. Why? Because if people can opt out of paying taxes, no taxes would be collected.

[AussieAustrianBlog]

@ranting55 Explain how it is that George does not own himself and his possessions, i.e. car, furniture or money (remembering money is used as a medium of exchange - a claim on physical goods).

[ranting55]

@bitbutter Any of the following entitlement theories might conflict with George's current possessions:

1). Justice though homestead and voluntary transfer.

2). Total non-ownership (anarchism).

3.) Total communal ownership (communism).

4.) Utilitarianism.

5.) Equality of outcomes/welfare/opportunity/m­idfare/capabilities/etc.

Our intuitions about use of force have nothing to do with what entitlement theory happens to be true, because each one, if true, would justify the same amount of force.

[bitbutter]

@ranting55 "if Oliver is entitled to some of what George possesses"

What would entitle him to George's property?