Water to Wine? Questions On A Miracle of Christ

BERAKHOT
7:5 Two groups which were eating in one house— `If some [members] of each group face one another, lo, they may combine as a single group [which says together the blessing over the meal]. `But if not, each invites [members of its own group to bless] for themselves. `"They do not recite the blessing over wine until one puts water into it [so that it may be drunk]"—the words of R. Eliezer. `But sages say, "They [even] recite the blessing [beforehand]."



BABA MESIA
4:11 They do not commingle one sort of produce with another sort of produce, `even new and new [produce, plucked in the same growing season], `and it goes without saying, new with old. `To be sure, in the case of wine they have permitted commingling strong with weak, `because it improves it. `They do not commingle the lees of wine with wine. `But one may hand over [to a purchaser] the lees [of the wine he is buying]. `He whose wine got mixed with water may not sell it in a store, `unless he informs [the purchaser], `nor to a merchant, `even though he informs him. `For [the latter buys it] only to deceive others thereby. `In a place in which it is the custom to put water in wine, `one may dilute it.

Babylonian Talmud:Folio 97a
http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/bababathra_97.html

R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Jehozadak: The same [laws] that have been said [to apply] in respect of their prohibitions17 have similarly been said [to apply] in respect of their making objects fit [for Levitical uncleanness].18 What [kind] of making fit [is meant]? If [the infusion is regarded as consisting] of water, it certainly makes [objects] fit [for the Levitical uncleanness]; [and] if [it is regarded as consisting] of wine it [equally] makes the objects fit. [For what purpose. then, is R. Simeon's statement required?] — It is required in the case where the Tamad19 was made of rain water.20 But since he took up [the rain water] and poured it into the vessel [containing the lees], he [surely] intended them [for use, and consequently there is again no difference between an infusion of wine and one of water. Why, then, R. Simeon's statement]? — It is required [in the case] where the Tamad was made without the aid of human effort.21 But since he draws out [the infusions] one after the other,22 [does he not, thereby,] reveal his intention [of using them]? — R. papa replied: In [the case23 of] a cow which drank the [infusions] one after the others [and, consequently, the owner's intention is not known].24

New Testament text:
John Chapter 2
On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus said to them, "Fill the jars with water." And they filled them up to the brim. He said to them, "Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward." So they took it. When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now." Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
(Joh 2:1-11)

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• Miracles
• Christ
• wine.
• Christian
• judaism
• wayman29

[losloboslocos]

Correction on my first post: rite and not right. I apologize, English is not my first language :-O

[wayman29]

Hey thanks for posting you views on the topic. Thanks for chiming in and contributing. I'm not sure if it was a purification ceremony. But excellent hypothesis. Thanks!

[tehshlong]

ohh shut up u crazy jesus bummer!

[wayman29]

Your depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.

[JesusIsAlive4U]

I think the key is that the vessels were empty, then filled with water, then the miracle.

[losloboslocos]

.. wine in the first place) and the miracle was that the jars were empty to begin with. Being the good Jews that they were, Jesus' disciples would have known the the purification ritual works and would not have been impressed by this act unless the jars had been completely empty from the start and they knew it. Therefore I believe your point doesn't draw a good argument, in other words, your argument doesn't disprove Jesus' miracle. Nor do my words prove it, it's still a matter of faith for me.

[losloboslocos]

How do your first two readings of BERAKHOT and BABA MESIA relate to the reading of the New Testament? First of all, we are not reading original texts but translations (perhaps translated many times over) and as copies of copies some meaning may be lost. So if all of Jesus' disciples were Jewish they would also know how the right of purification works, and wouldn't have believed this to be a miracle. Perhaps they were getting ready for the Jewish right of purification (which needs VERY STRONG..

[SaudaraLink]

it was common custom to add water to wine, so why would anyone have even told such a story? Jesus turned water into wine and did numerous other miracles including opening the eyes of the blind and raising the dead. He rose from the dead Himself, a sign He gave to show that He was a prophet (the sign that He was The Prophet like Moses.)

[StephenWebb1980]

For a 'holy man' like Y'shua to make the wine drinkable is quite an honor to those present.