A debate between renowned Christian apologist and philosopher William Lane Craig and prominent humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz at Franklin & Marshall College discussing whether God is necessary for...
A debate between renowned Christian apologist and philosopher William Lane Craig and prominent humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz at Franklin & Marshall College discussing whether God is necessary for a sound foundation for morality.
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Jones and Green are stranded in the Arctic. Jones has a coat. Green doesn't. Green is going to die. Is it morally correc for Jones to give Green his coat? Maybe. But lets complicate things. Jones is a life-saving surgeon. Green is a common theif and drug user. Is the altruistic act of giving up the coat STILL a moral imperative? Morality can change from religion to religion, scenario to scenario. It is not so simple, in my opinion, as infallable rules from different Gods with conflicting ideas.
I find it morally objectionable that you would presume to judge between the two and say that one deserves to die more than the other. They're both humans. The value of human life cannot be coldly calculated as you imply. Atheistic morality is a joke. I have yet to find any real argument for objective moral values in atheism.
@laurajhamilton0 The morally correct thing to do is for both men to do everything in their power to keep each other alive because to do otherwise would be selfish and immoral, but if atheism is true and I'm Green, Jones is dead. End of story. However, if I help Jones, that's just a choice I make. It's neither right or wrong. For Jones, it's a wonderful choice I made because he lives, but that's all it is. In truth, it was the right choice. Question is... why was it right?
And no. Everything is not simply permitted because there is no God. We impose rule upon ourselves. We know, for example that it is "wrong" to steal because we would not want to be stolen from. Likewise, it is not a productive means of acquiring wealth. One person benefits, others lose. Simple. Furthermore, Altruism is NOT always the morally correct thing. It is something that we in a resource-rich society can flatter ourselves with. I'll continue with this scenario:
"We impose rule upon ourselves. We know, for example that it is "wrong" to steal because we would not want to be stolen from. "
This doesnt answer the problem. Why is this right: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." ? And why should i obey this rule, especially if i get disadvantaged by this? We have to acknowledge that there things that are right in themselves, independet of us.
Without objective moral values, your lost in moral relativism.
First of all, the butterfly effect does not play into this. I was being quite general in my statement before. In fact, the moral act is the act that produces the most positive FORSEEABLE result. If you could look into the future to see how the results of your actions would pan out, morality would not need to exist at all. We should do what seems like it will create the most positive result without actually knowing.
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So we should help him and use this situation to show him the way to christ, so that he sees and repents his sins, making him a better man.
The morally correct thing to do is for both men to do everything in their power to keep each other alive because to do otherwise would be selfish and immoral, but if atheism is true and I'm Green, Jones is dead. End of story.
However, if I help Jones, that's just a choice I make. It's neither right or wrong. For Jones, it's a wonderful choice I made because he lives, but that's all it is.
In truth, it was the right choice. Question is... why was it right?
I appreciate your words. Well said.
This doesnt answer the problem. Why is this right: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." ? And why should i obey this rule, especially if i get disadvantaged by this? We have to acknowledge that there things that are right in themselves, independet of us.
Without objective moral values, your lost in moral relativism.