Benny Morris speaking at the Helsinki Peace Forum 25 11 2010

Morris spoke at the University of Helsinki organized by the Hakunila organization. He was debating terrorist supporter Azzam Tamimi

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Helsinki
• Peace
• Forum

[jameshanley40]

Where are the question and answers? they were good.

[bigbossman999]

@alonee810 and certainly, some of the sources i pulled the quotes from are : "Benny Morris, Israel’s Border Wars, 1949–1956" (oxford press 1993)

"Righteous Victims: A history of the Zionist-Arab conflict,

1881–2001 (New York: 2001),"

Anyway I think regardless of what side you find yourself on, I think we can all agree that definitely something needs to be done, a permanent peace settlement agreeable to both sides that will finally bring this unnecessary conflict to a peaceful end

[bigbossman999]

@alonee810 yes but Ross and Clinton say one thing and then other American diplomats and even an Israeli negotiator said if I was the palestinians I wouldve rejected it too, it was a discontiguous state with roughly 87% of west bank and SOME control of jerusalem. However the deal in the Taba, accoding to BOTH sides was amicable and they were ready to agree to it, when Barak had to call off the peace talks due to Sharon's instigation..

[bigbossman999]

@ngreenwald89 I have a hard time believing that because if you look at the second intifida, the ratio of palestinian civillians killed to israeli's, by most conservative estimates was 8:1 and with some estimates as high as 15:1. Yes hamas targets civillians, but they ALWAYS have, even in the 80's. Regardless though everyone is entitled to change their opinion, it doesnt change the IMMENSE volume of work we have from Mr. Morris where he vehemently criticizes Israeli policy in the strongest terms

[ngreenwald89]

Morris then reconsidered if there ever was a possibility for a two state solution, and whether the Palestinians were capable of compromise. It's also quite an unfair charge to say Morris changed his views in exchange for public acceptance. The guy's an ex-paratrooper who, as I said, served in jail as a coscientious objector, revealed some of Israel's original sins to itself, and is now practically a pariah in international academia. He's the definition of testicular fortitude.

[ngreenwald89]

Actually, Morris has been clear about what changed his political views (I'll leave it to the armchair psychologists to figure out if it has affected his academic output): the 2nd intifada. He felt that the 1st intifada (when he sat in jail for a month rather than serve) was about the occupation, and thus the Palestinians were justified in their resistance. He felt the 2nd intifada, with its deliberately murderous attacks on buses and cafes etc., was an attempt to destroy Israeli society.

[alonee810]

@bigbossman999 but look at whats going on in the arab world who knows what tommorow will bring it could all change faster than we can predict or expect.

yes, its never boring here in the ME i can assure you...

[alonee810]

@bigbossman999 they r not rushing into anything and barak is right israel should try and reach an agreement but to be honest i dont think it will happen. the u.n and other countrys might recognize palestine[some country allready have], my guess it will happen before any agreement between the two sides. time[and the worlds opinion] is not on israels side and the pale' know it so they wont rush into any agreement, if they feel they can bargain a better deal...

[alonee810]

@bigbossman999 regarding the peace talks it can b disputed. clinton and danis ross [as others on the israeli side] say Arafar refused the parameters and tryed to stall time[back in 2000]. Olmert[only two ys ago] and barak both[as prime ministers] offered almost everything to the pale'[olmert even excepted the return of some refugees] and the pale denied it. regarding the new deal, its true time is playing into the pale' hands...

[alonee810]

without picking sides pale' or israels. the change occuered as i said due to the research he has done[he wrote 4 books from 2000-2010 and only 2 before dat] and due to the failure of the peace talks from 2000 and on, which pretty much comes in sync with the books he wrote afterwards. thats how i see it anyways, i dont think "magic documents" did it, i think it was a long and slow process.

again if u can refrence me to the books\articles you quoted from it will b much appreciated. take care