Steven Nadler talk on Spinoza - Part 2 of 2

Steven Nadler, Chair of the Department of Philosophy at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, gives a talk on Baruch Spinoza at Beyond Belief 2006, touching on Spinoza's conception of God and morality.

Spinoza heavily influenced Einstein's beliefs about God and ethics. He said:
'It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropomorphic concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near to those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order and harmony which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem — the most important of all human problems.'

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief/
http://philosophy.wisc.edu/nadler/

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIYOC6RQ_LY

Category:

Education

Tags:

• spinoza
• einstein
• philosophy
• ethics
• morality
• beyond
• belief
• lecture
• God
• euthyphro

[stav2009]

Good to see that Nadler is as good a lecturer as he is a writer. His introduction to the Ethics is one of the best there is.

However, I do wonder whether Spinoza is an Atheist -- he is clearly informed by the Judeo-Christian conception of God. And when, he talks about the "Intellectual *Love* of God", I don't think that the use of the term, "Love" is accidental -- maybe not as as strong as worship but stronger than merely scientific curiosity.

[riversonthemoon]

While I don't think he's an atheist in the sense that we usually use it he was certainly a monist but believed in the perfection of the world, seeing God and nature as identical and mathematically precise, rejecting divine intent and purpose. He considered spirituality a part of human life, as a way to maintain equanimity in a hostile environment. He didn't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater as far as religion was concerned. I've heard him referred to as a 'proto-hippy'. LOL

[GranolaLola1]

i agree that good does not simply mean 'short-term good' for oneself but long-term good done for the benefits of society.. there are a number of long term benefits one can reap in return for an enlightened well-functioning society

whether we want to except it or not, we are part of a larger society, who's actions affect us

for ex. if there was a war, it is ignorant to think everyones actions or thoughts would not be in some way affected by it.n other ppl's actions affect us

i love Socrates!

[riversonthemoon]

I think the problem here, though, lies in the intractability and varying opinion of what exactly constitutes 'long-term good' for society. It basically leads us to politics and economics.

[psilotum10000]

I think this is a bit of a shallow reading of Spinoza. I've read portions of the Ethics and there is a clear  sense of religious devotion and awe. To take a spiritual attitude or having awe does not contradict seeking understanding. Spinoza's 'God or nature' is greater than both, infinite and ever present (as well as creative/generative).

For Spinoza, the ultimate good is understanding the universe and what is "in ones best interest", ie. what one should do.

[pjioayncoe]

It all depends on how you define God. If you equate God with the Supernatural, then Spinoza is an atheist. If you equate God with Nature, then Spinoza is not. However, most of us consider God to be outside of Nature, so Spinoza can be called an atheist.

[keesvangulik127]

I think, people who are afraid need a god, and the courageous don't. If there's a god or not is a totally unimportant question.

[ComradeAgopian]

@riversonthemoon , Spinoza as a proto hippy.......I like it .

[MacksPower75]

I think Nadler misinterprets Spinoza here and uses his philosophy to disprove an anthropomorphic God instead of focusing on the God Spinoza speaks of. Spinoza is an atheist as far as a personal God goes but he is not an atheist as far as God goes, if anything Spinoza is a gnostic who believes the totality of everything existent is one substance.That this substance has a character of being self created and that all things self created are closest to the essence of or at least alignment with God.

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

humans dont have free will

[philonous09]

@psilotum10000 I would have to agree with you, I felt a bit skeptical when I was listening to this lecture and I think that Spinoza saw God more than just nature but a Substance with infinite attributes in which Nature happens to be subsumed under. For Spinoza there is no "Right" or "Wrong" but only good means to control you're emotions in order to experience union with reality or being stuck in you're self-centered emotional state.

[philonous09]

of the infinite attributes. Another reason why I'm reluctant to agree with Nadler's case that Spinoza is an Atheist is because Spinoza clearly believed that the Substance was not only an Eternal Substance with infinite attributes but also a Thinking Substance that contemplates on it's own perfection (some-what similar to Aristotelian God except such a God is transcendent, not immanent). Nonetheless I enjoyed Nadler's lecture, and I might consider his arguments.

[philonous09]

I would agree with Nadler that Spinoza is an atheist in the sense that Spinoza rejects the supernatural (which includes divine revelation and miracles), however I don't agree that Spinoza equates God with nature in the ordinary sense. If nature means what we ordinarily understand nature to be then I would have to reject this because Spinoza was not a naturalist; Spinoza clearly believed that there were infinite attributes of the Substance, and materiality and Ideas (or mentality) were two

[colourmegone]

@riversonthemoon It was Socrates who despised democracy. Socrates liked to hang around with the sons of the aristoi ('best men', i.e. propertied) and engage them in sophistic dialogues. Plato, who was one of these, was echoing his teacher's words. It is interesting to note that when Plato actually set up his 'Republic' at the invitation of philosopher king it was such a miserable failure that the king sold him into slavery. He was freed by funds raised by the Peripitetic School in Athens.

[snufkin789]

Everyone who can identify with Spinoza or who is interested in his thoughts I am recommending you all to read Meister Eckhart, an outstanding German mystic and scholastic preacher that had captured the essence of monism centuries before Spinoza. It is strange that Eckhart wasn't recognized by Spinoza at all, but nevertheless Eckharts conception of god show many similarities to Spinozas ideas. Eckhart's conception of God, as Spinoza's, was deep and thoroughly moving, however both got ostracized.

[snufkin789]

Spinoza describes three ways of acknowledgement, the first is the sensual (empirical), the second is contemplating (rational), and the third and highest / deepest is the intuitive. His mechanistic world-view is not by any means a reason for us to see the world less fascinating, it is rather a fascinating simplification that he managed to create, it gives us freedom to explore the ways of this 'machine of existence' to grow higher in our capabilities and thus to discover our own freedom.