Seeing isn't believing

This is a video response to a video CuanMarce2 sent me about private religious experiences/miracles — whatever you wish to call them — and his problems with the idea of using the scientific method in these, and other, scenarios.

Not sure how many of these full responses I'll be doing in future. I'm thinking that from now on, when there are so many statements to address in someone's video to me, I'll do something more quick-fire.

Anyway, this video again has four sections:

1) Throwing Data Away
2) Imaginary v Real
3) The Scientific Method
4) Seeing is Believing

Until the video link comes through, CuanMarce2's video can, I believe be accessed at:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQkLzlphTA

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• science
• atheist
• atheism
• god
• imaginary
• real
• miracle
• transcendence
• collective
• consciousness
• scientific
• method

[synawat]

you and qualiasoup are brothers or something, right?

[TheraminTrees]

@synawat Yes, we're brothers

[UrukEngineer]

@TheraminTrees I'm subbed to both of you. I know that you came from a family background that "cocooned" you in religion. I'm very interested in how you both became such articulate advocates of Atheism and free thought. Was this independant of each other or did you do this together?

[TheraminTrees]

@UrukEngineer Qualia's been staying for a few days and, oddly, we were talking about this the other day — that we arrived at our conclusions independently, in different ways, but over the same period, so that we made a joint announcement of non-belief in magical beings. From that point on, like many who are pressurised to recant, we saw that it was in our interests to familiarise ourselves with as much of the case for the defence as possible.

[Hjerrick]

You seem like a very likeable and lovely person, I'm glad that I've let your videos broaden my perspective on life as a whole (This is a copout I know, I just can't quite comprehend how I've been enriched by your videos, I just feel I have.)

Thank you

[TheraminTrees]

@Hjerrick That's a very kind comment. Thank you. And welcome to the channel ;8)

[iscay666]

Your my new role model.

[TheraminTrees]

@Perapk 'Thinking that love exists requires faith, as if it was supernatural. Your thoughts?'

—I guess my response is that language is awash with metaphor — maybe even drowning. When we take metaphor literally, problems arise. Love is, for me, an example. I don't believe love 'exists' — I think of it as shorthand for collections of feelings/thoughts/attitudes, etc..

[XmarkedSpot]

@xcvsdxvsx

Well, pardadoxies and reality exclude each other by definition. The only paradoxy possible comes from a faulty projection of the imagined attributes of a percieved reality.

In other words, paradoxies only seem to exist if your model of reality (subjective or not) in your mind is self-contradictory... don't blame a possible objective reality for it

¯\(ツ)/¯

[xcvsdxvsx]

@XmarkedSpot another thing im pretty damn sure of is that reality subjective or otherwise is on some fundamental level a paradox =P

[XmarkedSpot]

@xcvsdxvsx

You remind me of Descartes; i think, therefore i am... and the rest will forever stay a matter of epistemology.

Given that you accept the consequences of your very last statement, there is a guideline how to further tell "truth" apart from fantasy, namely by utilizing following razor: a self-evident proposition is one whose denial is self-contradictory.

But hell, every reference to self-evidence itself will be ultimatively caught in a vicious circle of self-reference ^^

[xcvsdxvsx]

@XmarkedSpot i can say i suspect very strongly that there is a difference. i cant go any further than that. i have found that discounting scientific inquiry/discovery on these grounds serves no purpose. if it is infact the case that the universe is the product of my imagination than there would be nothing to be gained or lost by treating it as such, however if there is an objective reality than treating it as fantasy would be a terrible waste.

[jolex7]

Have you read massimo pigliucci, I highly recommend it!

[XmarkedSpot]

@xcvsdxvsx

By using the term "faith based belief" onto all kinds of experience you positively render all knowledge (as objective as they possibly get) to a mere state of opinion.

Thus you ought to recogize that your "statement of fact" is in fact biased towards accepting truth out of mere belief as opposed to results produced by scientific inquiry. I hope you know the difference by yourself.

[xcvsdxvsx]

@XmarkedSpot it is nothing more than a statement of fact, i make no claim to how it should be interpreted.

[karadan100]

Everybody needs a friend with your analytical and reasoning skills.

[XmarkedSpot]

@xcvsdxvsx

Killer argument or genuine stupidity? Defense of faith based belief or depressed nihilism? Make your mind up, with this approach nothing (religion included) makes even a subjective sense.

[xcvsdxvsx]

never forget mister trees that belief in objective reality is a faith based belief, since all experience is subjective in nature.