CALVINISM- 'Why I Am Not A 5 Point Calvinist' - By Dr. Norman Geisler (2 OF 9)

(2 OF 9) WOW A MUST SEE!!! At 'A Moment of Truth' (AMomentOfTruth.org), we are in total agreement with Dr. Geisler. We believe Calvinism is an attack on Gods Character for "God Is Love" (1 John 4:8, 16). God is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). We discern from the Word of God that most people wont be saved despite the fact that God desires for all to be saved! However, God does't send people to Hell. They choose to go there. 'MY CALVINIST BROTHER AND SISTER, MAYBE YOU NEED MORE OF GOD'S LOVE AND MERCY IN YOU, MAYBE!!!' (Sammy Sabbagh, 'A Moment of Truth').

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• Calvinism
• arminianism
• elect
• election
• predestined
• chose
• God
• Jesus
• Bible
• Salvation
• Sovereign
• Hell
• Heaven
• Truth
• Saved
• Born
• Again

[Mcfirefly2]

"Irresistible grace" is so far beneath the way the Holy Spirit convicts us and draws us to Jesus that calling IG "zapping" highlights the fact that it is an _unworthy_ understanding of how the grace of God really works. It is not like lightning striking, probably where the idea of "zapping" came from.

[Mcfirefly2]

By "zapping," he doesn't mean the _actual_ way God interacts with man through His Spirit, but that the way that Calvinists replace it with "irresistable grace" is like zapping since it is like a bolt of lightning that either hits you or not, no interaction involved. Either you get "zapped" or you don't. The real way God interacts with us is so far superior to it that the "irresistable" version deserves a contemptuous word like "zapping."

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

@Mcfirefly2

As to the "why" of why people speak so - one can be drawn to Him in that way, without having the ability to articulate the theology of the Divine action by which one is drawn. Not everyone finds theology attractive - but we don't need to be able to know the fine detail of God's dealings with us, or of ours with Him, for them to be real & saving & life-giving. These realities is still realities, however ultimately mysterious they may be to us.

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

@Mcfirefly2

Geisler does talk of "zapping", unfortunately, in this video - I wish he hadn't, for the reasons given. I find it very surprising indeed (to put it mildly !) that a Calvinist should oppose "prevenient grace": many affirm it very clearly. Maybe some are not as theologically careful as others, or are "hyper"-Calvinists. It's good we can discuss this though. Some Calvinists on YT say appealing to paradox is a bad thing - unlike many Calvinist theologians. ........

[Mcfirefly2]

Calvinists point to John 6:44 as if that proves that God only wants to save a few:

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But they leave out John 12:32:

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

(6:44--the antecedent of "him"in both clauses is "[no] man [who]comes to him")

We can't come to Him unless we are drawn, but He at some time draws all men, in sincerity, to Him to be saved.

[Mcfirefly2]

Jesus didn't teach that we are born again first, then believe. If you read John 1 without an agenda of proving Calvinism (as a person who is obeying the Spirit and word of God, to seek Him and the salvation He provides, would do), it says that to those who receive Him is given the right to become the sons of God, which is so clearly meant to imply causation. The salvation is all of the Lord, we don't "cause" it that way, but receiving it through faith is how it becomes our own.

[Mcfirefly2]

As much as it is ridiculed and reviled as "weak," God does woo us as well as convict us of sin, through the Holy Spirit. And He tells us in His word to believe, receive, trust, seek. All of those commands of God tell us that, in some way, they must be possible. The same Holy Spirit that draws us to Jesus Christ enables us to overcome dead in sins and trespasses and any other obstacle to belief, if we _will_. _Whosoever will_ may come and drink freely of the water of life--that is _anyone_.

[Mcfirefly2]

They teach that only through an act of "sovereign" regeneration--it makes it sound like they are really on God's team, all this talk about "sovereingty"--is it possible to receive Him. We are born-again _first_, before faith, according to them. It is as if God takes us like the robots we supposedly are, opens up our backs, and puts a new battery pack and software (firmware?) chip in us; then and only then are able to respond. But this is not Biblical & it isn't what believers have experienced.

[Mcfirefly2]

Calvinists teach that man has no choice, and that effectively eliminates the way that God _does_ "lovingly come to us first." I have discussed this with them online and they absolutely revile that we are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit. No, they say, we are regenerated without so much as receiving it, by an act of God which we have no knowledge of or way of receiving, therefore they are the ones who are suggesting that God does not draw us; he fixes us without any interaction; we have no choice.

[Mcfirefly2]

The point is that He doesn't "zap" anybody. I have read more Calvinists reviling "prevenient grace" in such a shockingly blasphemous way than I ever thought I would. They are the ones talking about the very personal way God reaches and convicts us in a way that makes it seem unholy. If they have been drawn to the Lord by His Spirit, why do they talk like that?