The State- According to God

1 Samuel, Chapter 8

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[ElasticGiraffe]

"The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him; and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples." Gen. 49.10

"In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Jud. 21.25

This messianic passage from Genesis and this last verse of Judges seem to indicate that a king would be a good thing for Israel. In Samuel 8, however, God grants Israel a "warrior-king" like the pagan peoples had.

[tumbleweedjoe]

@ElasticGiraffe The first passage is obviously a prophetic reference to Christ who was not a government official and who was rejected by his own people, in large part because he did not reestablish an earthly kingdom of the sort the Jews were hoping for. His is a spiritual kingdom (the Church) and so this actually backs up my point.

The second passage is the very last verse of Judges and does not, by itself, indicate anything. However, I did read an entire chapter from Samuel explicitly...

[tumbleweedjoe]

@ElasticGiraffe ...includes the information that God had not intended his people to be ruled by a human king, but be ruled directly by Him as king. The story of Saul and and even David (later when he takes out a census and also when he has Uriah killed) illustrate the corrupting influence of power on people whom God has chosen to be king (again, once he decides to go along with the Israelites irreverent request for a king).

Jesus (the true king) also continues this point in Luke 22 24-30.

[CloverfieldMonster95]

@tumbleweedjoe have you read Jim Fedako's article on Romas 13 and Anarcho Capitalism?

[Decentralism]

@tumbleweedjoe Just earned yourself a sub, from an atheist no less!

[rumpranger65]

Got this idea from Paine?

[ElasticGiraffe]

@tumbleweedjoe specifically wanted Saul as their king, whom God knew was not the right candidate to begin a dynasty. God wanted a different king, one who would not be just a mega-judge and overstep his bounds. But nevertheless He met their foolish demands.

It's a contentious issue, though, and I think it's quite possible that the author of Judges and the author of Samuel/Kings are coming from different periods and perspectives and, thus, have different attitudes toward a monarchy.

[ElasticGiraffe]

@tumbleweedjoe wrong if the Israelites disobeyed God. Israel was divided against itself, and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The author of Judges emphasized the need for a king, a centralized government, to unite the tribes and provide political and moral stability because "everyone did what was right in his own eyes."

The people specifically asked for "a king to judge [them]. . .like all the nations." They envied the pagans and wanted similar leadership. They also...

[ElasticGiraffe]

@tumbleweedjoe Genesis reveals that God intended to give the rule over Israel to the tribe of Judah. There is nothing in this passage to suggest that He would do this reluctantly. As a matter of fact, only through the Davidic line of kings does Jesus' own future messianic kingship make sense.

Unlike Joshua, which illustrates how things would flow smoothly if the Israelites obeyed the rules for engaging the Canaanites outlined in Deuteronomy, Judges illustrates how things would go terribly...