TSR2 Destruction of the Prototypes

Lord Healey, who was minister for defense says he didn't order this, if not then who did? As minister he is in charge and is responsible for the actions of people under him. I find it hard to believe someone lower down the defence ministry would order this act of vandalism without autherisation. So the question open to debate is who dunnit?

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• TSR2
• TSR-2
• BAC
• Aircraft

[evilintel]

There's a lot of truth the the US being involved in it being scrapped...and this is coming from an American. Or have you not noticed the UK (conviniently) bought F-4s' and C-130s', when their own companies had equal, homemade designs that were completely ignored? The US had a BIG hand in getting this machine canned, because they knew TFX would never sell if it had any competition.

[WinchesterRanger]

Dennis Healey was the most destructive and despicable politician that the UK ever had.

I would not believe him if he sat on a stack of bibles, the man is the vilest of creatures.

[brownjack56]

We here in America almost lost the B-1B the same way as the UK lost the TSR.2. President Carter cancelled the program, because he felt it wasn't "cost effective." Luckily for the USAF, a few flying prototypes were kept for testing and experimentation. Leave it to short-sighted politicians to screw the military. Our government is preparing to take between 600 billion and 1 trillion dollars from our military. They don't understand what that could end up doing to out country's security.

[dmax631]

all i can say is Fuck Labour

[mattsta1964]

One of the worst acts of industrial vandalism ever committed.

Dennis Healey, a founder member of the Bilderberg Group WAS responsible for this act or gross treason against the British nation.

An utter scumbag

[RATIONALMIND001]

The TSR2 was cancelled under pressure from the USA. They didn't want any competition for their F-111 and any escape of advanced technology to unfriendly countries. The fate of Canada's Avro Arrow was similar. All the aeronautical expertise left for the USA also.

[albion2742]

When this was cancelled to buy the American fighter as it was more cost effected.It turned out that after UK put the RR enginge in the US plane that ended up costing more than the TSR 2.

[DarkLordDiablos]

@AkAlpinista You said it yourself Matured and then proceeded to say it was a better aircraft.

The TSR2 was better the the F-111 but a large margin, as it was a grear aircraft from the start and would have continued to get better and better as the years went on.

By the time the F-111 matured in into a great aircraft the TRS2 would have been even better.

[AkAlpinista]

@DarkLordDiablos My father flew F model Varks in the late 80s and early 90s -- and he loved them. The F-111 matured into an excellent aircraft.

Of course, the key word there is "matured." No one can argue that the Vark was a better design than the TSR 2 back at the outset. Short story: this is a damned infuriating video to watch.

[zarquon53]

@macbrack04 and dont forget the mysterious crash and end of the "Optica" programme , the little plane that could do the survelliance work of a helicopter at a third of the price - who has the biggest Helicopter industry ?

[zarquon53]

@omgitshardtofindID The TSR2 was designed to enter Russian Airspace in deep penetration missions at low level and then " Lob " a stand off nuclear bomb ( primitive cruise missle ) on to the target . Unfortunately , this scenario was rendered hopeless by the forthcoming airborne "look-down radars like the AWACs , which the Russians were believed to have in development too .

Hence the decision not to proceed , and the decision to destroy the very advanced platform so this could not be copied .

[easybeat]

And recently we've just seen Nimrods being publicly demolished...!

[SR71ABCD]

Destruction of the prototypes heh? I don't think so there's one one left at RAF Duxford.

[pg1171]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH That's never stopped th US! I do agree though. The TSR2 was a magnificent aircraft, but way over-engineered for the specifications. A lot of aircraft today would have a tough time competing with it, I believe. I see the Typhoon II as a modern TSR2, although not as radically advanced for the time it was designed. RIP TSR2!

[pg1171]

@MrCayoCoco Wonderful plane, and the US caused it to be dropped! Just the ol' US getting rid of competition! And yes, I DO live in the US.

[pg1171]

The US had a very big hand in most of the UK designs being scrapped, but THIS travesty should never have happened! It was like they were telling the rest of the UK aero industry, don't design anything else, or THIS will happen to YOU! Now they are having to co-operate with other countries just to get an aircraft designed! The awful economies over the last three decades haven't helped either.

[MrCayoCoco]

Reminds me of the Avro Arrow (CF 105) destruction.

[donzdonz]

Let's hope that when the official secrets act lapses on this horrid affair, that the truth comes out - and SHAMES those responsible for this ridiculour act of destruction !

[pidgin]

Heartbreaking

[macbrack04]

@evilintel Totally agree...I ended up working on the re-engined FGR2 Phantom and should have been working on the TSR2 in RAF Service....the americans had a dirty hand in this and other UK aviation cancellations...Comet, Trident, Viscount, Blue Steel etc etc...

[macbrack04]

Absolutely disgraceful decision and actions...if not for the cancellation I would have been working on the TSR2 in service with the RAF....a beautiful aircraft that fitted the maxim 'if it looks right it is right'.....there should be legay accountability and redress against all politicians for their decisions.....

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Whilst there does appear to be plenty of circumstancial evidence that the US played a part in TSR 2's downfall, there appears to be a woeful lack of hard evidence, as you suggest, that could be due to the Official Secrets Act.....Either way, I think the loss of TSR 2 did untold damage to our aviation industry & we are still suffering the consequences. It is immensely frustrating to think we built such an awesome aircraft, and due to bungling & lack of confidence, we lost her.

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

@DarkLordDiablos On paper, the projected costs of the F-111 were much cheaper than those associated with TSR 2. Whilst the F-111 was not as advanced as TSR, it would have provided the RAF with an adequate aircraft capable of carrying out low level interdiction. The cash strapped Labour gov viewed F-111 as sensible proposition, especially given the fact that the US offered a ten year credit deal. As it turned out, the costs of F-111 soared. T.B.C

[DarkLordDiablos]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Why would we need the F-111 when we had the TSR-2?

The F-111 was no where near as good or able to do what the TSR-2 could.

As for you saying theres no proof, ofcourse theres no proof, all the proof is locked away where only those who have signed the Official Secrets Act can view it.

Its blantantly obvious they had some involvement as not only was it cancelled but all the plans were also destroyed so we couldn't re-built it at a later date which is all the proof you need.

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

@evilintel Sorry, you are wrong, TSR 2 was much more expensive than the F-111. It was the sheer cost of the machine that contributed to it's downfall. The country was nearly bankrupt, we couldn't afford it. In addition, we had just relinquished our Middle East commitments. It pains me to say it, but we actually didn't need TSR 2 any longer. Our sole role lay in NATO- Europe. As such, TSR 2 was over specified for a purely NATO role ie TACTICAL strike, as opposed to strategic strike. Sad but true.

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

@viewson800 Agreed. We even broke the sound barrier for them! They lied to the British gov when they offered a deal whereby we handed over all our secret research data, in return for a promised joint project. WIthin three weeks of handing over our files, the duplicious Yank bastards cancelled the deal. They STOLE our research. As you say, how 'odd' that the Bell X-1 appears to be a carbon copy of the Miles M52. They had to use rockets to break the barrier! lol Germany put Man On The Moon too!