Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is the fifth point of Calvinism in TULIP. It has evolved today to the idea of once saved always saved, but is not the same as it. It says that once a person is truly saved, they will (by the grace of God) persevere till the end. This is not necessarily a Scriptural idea. Scripture does in fact give us the idea that it is possible to turn your back on God, and lose your salvation.

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[prettylola1]

(In reference to Hebrews 6)1 Jn 2:19- They were never "true" believers in the first place. Enlightenment and regeneration are two separate things. It is noteworthy that the author of Hebrews does not refer to these apostatizers as “us” or even as “you,” but as “those.” Note also that as soon as the section dealing with these apostatizers ends, the writer sets up a contrast between the real and the counterfeit: “But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, things that accompany

[thebenjohnson]

@prettylola1 According to John Calvin himself, mankind is so depraved that he can only come to believe the gospel message when God opens his eyes to believe it. Now, according to that, if they have been enlightened to the Gospel (Greek for enlightened is photizo, which means to open one's eyes or make one see), and God has opened their eyes, God has chosen them to be saved. Now Hebrews 6 goes on to say that it is possible for these people to fall away; which goes against what Calvin taught.

[zkueker88]

Here's a question that you can answer in front of a camera -- If a genuine Christian can lose his salvation, then what must he do to keep it? Come up with a few efforts/works that man must do to maintain a saving relationship with God. Next, explain to us how this is not works righteousness. Then, deal with 1John 2:19 that teaches that those who "fell away" never were saved to begin with. Finally, explain how God cannot finish a perfect work that He began (see Phil. 1:6).

[thebenjohnson]

@zkueker88 We are only saved by the grace of God, through our faith (Ephesians 2:8). Only by God's grace can we come to him, and only by God's grace can we remain in the state of salvation. Without his grace we would never come to him, nor could we live a holy life after salvation. But we know that man has the choice to resist grace, and to resist the holy spirit, just as they did in Acts 7:51! This grace that God gives us, both at conversion and throughout the process of sanctification,

[thebenjohnson]

@zkueker88 (cont.) is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8). A gift is never forced upon a person, but it is something offered to a person, with the choice to accept it. God does not force people to accept him, but gives us the opportunity to accept him. This opportunity he gives such an unworthy people truly is grace. And beyond this he is drawing all men unto himself (John 12:32).

[Bill244888]

We can only lose our salvation if we initiated it to begin with.

The thing is, we didn't initiate it . . .

John 1:12-13

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

John 6:44

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."

Also see Phil. 1:6

[MrUltratruth]

The text is about self righteousness, Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his (own) righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered. It is possible to fall away from the faith, but not possible if you are choosen by the Father before the foundations of the world. Arminians and calvinists both agree that those living according to the flesh will perish, we simply believe Christ doesnt fail to keep those the father gave him

[chilimaan]

@zkueker88 You comment on peoples videos and block comments on yours. Typical.

[seanhflowers]

Dear Ben,

First, I just want to thank you for making the careful distinction between "once saved, always saved" and "perseverance of the saints". You've obviously done your homework!

Second, as a friendly critique, make sure you're careful to apply that same careful distinction when affirming your position over "perseverance of the saints". In 2:57 - 3:06 you didn't affirm your position over "perseverance of the saints", but over "once saved, always saved" (as your description suggests).

[Nidair]

@PreOAP I do not have an english bible (I am dutch, bear with me :P) but the Jesus character repeatedly says the kingdom of god cannot be seen - awkwardly strange for a place where spirits of the deceased go - and that it is very near to those who cast out the devil and submit themselves to his god, thus near to living individuals.

From this, I have no doubt that the kingdom of god is a metaphor for a state of ultimate peace of mind and heart.

[PreOAP]

@Nidair when did Jesus say - Paradise 'within'. I dont recall that he said within, seems like something has been added! Peace from God, before we have Christ as our Saviour we are object of wrath because of our sin. Only through Jesus can God be at peace with us because he poored out his wrath against sin on his very own son Jesus on the cross of Calvery...

[skoobalon]

@Nidair

I appreciate your honesty.

Have a good day.

[Nidair]

@skoobalon I am an atheist.

And is the kingdom of god (what you might refer to as heaven) not a metaphor for inner peace? I think that is what Jesus himself said. Because while I do not like christianity, I do like him. He talked about the paradise within, power through peace, and the internal judge.

It is just a pity that his many metaphors were misunderstood, and over the years his words were interpreted as the paradise within faith, peace through power, and the eternal judge.

[skoobalon]

@Nidair Hello there, my friend!

Are you an athiest, muslim, hindu, or something else altogether?

Its really hard to argue with that kind of reasoning. Nobody can be argued into the Kingdom of God.

Have a great day.

[Nidair]

@skoobalon How can your god be just when he condones slavery? When he thinks homosexuals are abominations? When he decides who will receive eternal punishment not by their deeds or their benevolence, but by their faith? Either he is not just, or he is not god.

It does not matter if the hymn of the subject of it promises eternal paradise, the result is the same: people are kept from living their life to the fullest because of faith. A faith governed through fear of eternal damnation.