MAD3/4/2 Money as Debt III - Evolution Beyond Money Part 4: Monetary Reform Movements / segment 2

Part 4 of Money as Debt III - Evolution Beyond Money, presents an analysis of the three fundamental concepts of money reform and why the idea of self-issued credit, first introduced to the viewer in The Essence of Money, includes and transcends the other two.



chapters: Self-Issued Credit, Conclusion.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• alternative
• currency
• community currency
• mutual credit
• credit
• debt
• money
• monetary
• reform
• gold
• silver
• Tea Party
• Occupy Wall Street
• Federal Reserve
• dollar
• bailout
• economy
• financial
• collapse
• crash
• crisis
• recession
• freedom
• Money
• Economic
• Bank
• Educational
• Government
• Market
• Federal Reserve System
• United States Dollar

[rudigerkoch]

@PaulWGrignon Who precisely is productive and trustworthy? I am unable to name even one person or organization. They both are inherently not trustworthy. With Bitcoin there is no need to trust anyone. True, pump and dump was part of Bitcoin's "history" of the past 8 months or so, but what do you mean it's "designed for"? Every system will suffer from suckers. The question is: Can the system cope? Bitcoin has proven that it can.

[PaulLWGrignon]

@rudigerkoch Bitcoin is perception money, undefined, designed for theoretically unlimited volatility based on perceptions and the manipulation of perceptions, as its history to date has demonstrated. It can happen again.

I advocate the original concept of money, from long before coins were invented, which was "a promise of something specific from someone specific", most seeking to stay in business and succeed by having the most reliable credit. That is how we rebuild productivity and trust.

[etzel33]

The demand for legal tender, whether rooted to commodities or not, is created by taxation. This demand for token currency creates value. Establishing a national currency can be done without having any gold or silver whatsoever. Currency can be created and spent to finance government, cycling back via taxes on land and privilege, without fear of inflation. Just a thought.

[PaulLWGrignon]

@etzel33 That is precisely what the movie says. Governments can issue credit against that government's taxes just as producers can issue credit against their own production. The essential point in both cases is that spending must EQUAL earning/taxation. In my proposed system this is automatically enforced.

[rudigerkoch]

@PaulLWGrignon Sounds like you advocate barter. Your movie didn't convey that message or did I get that wrong? Do you have a link to a document?

Everything is perception. Dollar is, Bitcoin is, Gold is and the promise of Mortlach to deliver me a cask of their Malt once it reaches 40 years maturity has also only the value I give it. A muslim may value Mortlach's promise even negative, if that's possible. There is no such thing as intrinsic value.

[Sumac5]

@PaulLWGrignon I'm beginning to think of the real advantage of bitcoin not as a new currency with all the problems you describe here, but as a means to implement the technology making banks less necessary. Google "triple entry bookkeeping". Your videos actually show an understanding of this, but most people will not see the advantages of it yet. Bitcoin needs to be in circulation for the technology to be "out there". I think of them as "priming the pump" so to speak.

[timonViejo]

1) There's a forth "school" by Silvio Gesell, precisely the Wörgl experiment was about free-money and not mutual credit. What I don't like about Gesell's freigeld is that it's also legal tender controlled centrally by the state. freicoin org

2) What you describe here as credit coin is equivalent to ripple, a mutual credit system completely decentralized that's not limited to small communities. ripple-project org

[etzel33]

@PaulLWGrignon that's what I took away from the Money as Debt II series that got me into this whole currency idea. I'm glad you haven't succumbed to the gold bug fever of Mises etc... thanks

[PaulLWGrignon]

@MsBitcoin BitCoin is "perception money" perfectly designed for "pump and dump" volatility. This is already apparent in its history and was entirely predictable from the start. My proposed system is not based on debt-of-money, anyone who is both productive and trustworthy may issue credits that can only be collected upon by purchasing from or employing them, and there is no central bank.

[MsBitcoin]

@PaulLWGrignon: good points. Bitcoin is not based on debt, and is open for everyone to participate in (that is, no central banks), including issuing new coins. Doesn't this address monetary mistakes that are as important or more important than what you listed?