Milton Friedman Debunking Myth Of The Great Depression part 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5329526746115377061

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• klein
• freidman
• freddie
• mac
• fannie
• mae
• regulation
• freemarket
• banks
• federal
• reserve

[laughingtiger123]

Due to the destruction of the family unit and the importation of the dregs of 3rd world countries and their differing ethics... and the 60's Great Society that made government the bread winner instead of a father, we have a young population of semi-literate, unskilled, intellectually lazy, child-minded (running on vague impressions and appearances, a rather unemployable public of limited value to the workforce and the market.

[donteatthefishsticks]

@tkwelge I agree. Thomas Paine proposed something called "agrarian justice," whereby the propertied pay a small indemnity to the dispossessed, in the form of everyone receiving a guaranteed minimum income. This is the simplest, fairest and most effective way of "redistributing wealth" and of sustaining demand in times of recession. It's a dividend paid out based on everyone owning shares of the country. Alaska has a similar program except the dividends paid out aren't big enough to live on.

[tkwelge]

@donteatthefishsticks Yes, when resources are superabundant, property rights make little sense. It isn't like we can get rid of property and then BAM we'd all be sunning ourselves under banana trees. In our world, resources are not super abundant, so one person ignoring another's property rights is infringing upon that person's right to support themselves.

[donteatthefishsticks]

@tkwelge If you live under a banana tree in the caribbean with plentiful fish and other food around you you will find you don't need to work much in order to live. And you can work at your leisure. The system of landed property and more specifically the condition of propertylessness has destroyed the right of the people to live in this way and is the reason people are forced to work for others at terms dictated by others, to pay rent or mortgage to some other. Propertylesness is slavery.

[vkorchnoifan]

Now I know what is going on in Washington and why.

[timberwulfzero]

@tkwelge; You're leaving out the most common method of obtaining the means of subsistance: wage labour. (Not the same as number two, as workers tend to be alienated from their own labour.)

Is it your position that it is impossible to reach the level of production required to eliminate scarcity of the means of subsistance?

[timberwulfzero]

@tkwelge; Naturally, exchange value is quantifiable; it is the sum of its inputs. Those inputs are constant capital (factories, tools, raw materials) and variable capital (labour power).

This being said, how can value spring from equal exchange? Does it stand to reason that an exchange of 3 dollars in currency for 3 dollars of bread creates value?

What is a "societal use value"?

[timberwulfzero]

@tkwelge; What metaphysical process have these capitalists gone through to become budding Bolsheviks? The ruling elite have out-competed the competition, though they have done so through (what could be seen as) unorthodox methods.

Is it really your position that there are "rich, greedy people" and then there are capitalists?

[tkwelge]

@tkwelge Yes, the entire concept of use value is purely subjective. It can't be measured or quantified. It really can't be defined in any concrete way. What's the point of even discussing use value then, as the only measurable value is exchange value? Any valuation other than exchange value is useless to the cooperative economic structure. The government can try to impose a "societal use value" on goods and services, but that would just be backed up with government violence.

[tkwelge]

@timberwulfzero Nobody is free from that level of coercion. The only way to obtain resources for use is 1)to produce them yourself, 2)to exchange personal production for the productions of others, or 3) to take them by force. You can argue that your stomach coerces you into eating food, but I don't think your stomach will care much. No man is an island, and under any system, people are "forced" to do things that they may not want to do just to survive.