Part 4 -- DID the disciples die for a lie?

This is part four of a series examining an argument many Christians regard as among the most convincing proofs that Jesus was raised from the dead, namely, that Jesus' disciples willingly died as martyrs for preaching that Jesus had been raised from the dead. No one, it is claimed, would willingly die for a lie. In this series, the argument is examined and three refutations of it are offered.

Links:

Christian apologist Josh McDowell setting forth the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0rhST6Q_gE

Christian apologist Lee Strobel setting forth the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIfhy0ug7kM

Dr. Lorne L. Dawson's "When Prophecy Fails and Faith Persists: A Theoretical Overview"—

http://caliber.ucpress.net/doi/pdf/10.1525/nr.1999.3.1.60

Part 5 of the series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I38XWqEOlaE

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Jesus
• resurrection
• apostles
• die
• lie
• empty
• tomb
• witness
• disciples
• martyr
• killed
• persecution
• Paul
• Peter
• crucifixion
• Andrew
• Thomas
• Philip
• Bible
• scriptures
• exegesis
• hermeneutics
• apologetics
• theology
• Easter
• Christ
• Messiah
• raised
• dead
• logic
• reason
• faith
• Christian
• Catholic
• atheist
• theist
• agnostic
• testimony
• Lent
• cognitive
• dissonance
• New
• Testament
• vision
• epistles

[guyinmirage]

if i can ask what is your religious belief ???????? judaism ?

[ProfMTH]

@guyinmirage I'm an atheist.

[caseybv74]

@ProfMTH What an evil belief!

[ProfMTH]

@caseybv74 What is an "evil belief"?

[caseybv74]

@ProfMTH I was being sarcastic as many religious people call atheism a belief.

[Franknarfable]

@ReverendWyrm - None of this actually happened so it's all ado about nothing really.

[wachnathan]

Thats why i say debates wont work against theism they will never give it up no matter how many times you refute them just look at creationism they loose over and over and yet they still persist.

[mejc2]

@ReverendWyrm

Inventing scenarios that are not even hinted at in any text, will allow you to create any imaginary situation that you wish. The cult of Bacchus were believers not witnesses. That is why Christianity is different. Becoming a martyr for a lie you have been telling which has already caused you to become a pauper, isn't exactly gain.

[ReverendWyrm]

@mejc2 The disciples may have been considered criminals when finally executed(presuming this is true at all). I wonder if a recantation on their part would have stayed their execution at all? Was it common in Rome to simply allow criminals to walk if they recanted? Faced with an unavoidable death why bother rescinding your teachings when you can become a martyr¿ Roman execution of the Cult of Bacchus members didn't stop belief in that religion why do assume Christianity is any different?

[ProfMTH]

@mejc2 "They didn't believe that they saw him, They KNEW."

Again, you assume the ground in controversy.

"When faced with death people usually tell the truth."

Again, you fail to understand the role of persecution--even persecution that concludes in death--in religious belief (discussed in detail in the series) & you assume that the apostolic martyrdom legends are accurate (the many problems with them are discussed at length in the series). You're just mindlessly repeating your beliefs.