Anarchism Skepticism Part 2 (for stargazer)

response to stargazer

Category:

Entertainment

Tags:

• anarchy

[smttysmth02gt]

I think you make some good points. However, towards the end you said you see no signs the U.S. could collapse and we've been in worse situations? I think not...

The anarchist argument is normally an intellectual facade IMO. Intelligent people attempting to present logical and well thought out arguments, that are ultimately based upon a utopia world built upon by emotion (desire for freedom).

I can agree with both statist and anarchist views.

[ithinkronpaulissmart]

@smttysmth02gt Why do you think the United States is going to collapse? I see no economic indications of this.

[smttysmth02gt]

@ithinkronpaulissmart Are you not paying attention to unemployment numbers? Or the amount of inflation that is likely to occur in the next decade or so? I'd say collapse of some form is not only probable, but likely.

Btw...commodities pricing jumping 50% in a matter of months is no economic indication? Check pricing since June for wheat, corn, sugar, etc...

[ithinkronpaulissmart]

@smttysmth02gt Unemployment went higher than this in the 1980s. We've had huge inflation rates before too. From a global or historical perspective, these numbers aren't really that crazy and most economists believe the economy is improving.

[smttysmth02gt]

@ithinkronpaulissmart So China and Russia has dropped the dollar before? And unemployment numbers were as high as they currently are, AND included ALL unemployed? Quantitative easing has happened before? or how about the fed reserve loaning out trillions while printing more money. I think stating anything is improving, without production or innovation improving is a rather obvious mistake. There is no reason to state it's "improving" if you have a basic understanding of history and economics.

[ithinkronpaulissmart]

@smttysmth02gt To me, those sound like problems. I think it's a stretch to conclude from that that the government is about to collapse. Unemployment has been higher and I don't think the methodology has changed, but I could be wrong. Relative to GDP, I think the government has printed similar amounts of money historically.

To be honest, I don't know that much about this issue, but I think we;re doing better than the Soviet Union was.

[benjayk]

Your "States formed out of anarchy" is a bad argument.

When we were hunter and gatherers there was no large scale warfare and it became common all over the world, yet you hopefully don't think this is reason to support war, right?

States may just have formed because "modern" (post stone age) society made it possible to achieve large scale control (and human psychology may be vulnerable to strong leaders because this worked at small scales), not because anarchy didn't work.

[benjayk]

Your road example is valid for some conceptions of anarchism. But many anarchists are not that idealistic and will not be fundamentally opposed to the idea that some people are forced to sell their houses at reasonable prices if it is a sufficiently important cause. Not every anarchist buys into some strict form of non-aggression.

[smttysmth02gt]

@leavesofliberty Nope. I've only been told about one, which was a long time ago and I don't remember. Either way, I doubt it was stupid people lazy americans either.  Don't get me wrong I understand everything you're saying, I simply think it would never work in this country.......ever.

[smttysmth02gt]

@leavesofliberty Indeed . Which is why I'd say the constitution failed. :-)

[leavesofliberty]

@smttysmth02gt Yeah, well, surely you are aware of anarchist societies that have lasted for longer periods of time with far less killing, lower taxes, and better justice than the US.

[leavesofliberty]

@smttysmth02gt Lol, the US has one of the largest prison populations in the world, 2.2M. I'm pretty sure that the problem is the lawmakers and the people who pay them off, and the sheeple who think that elections that make the sheeple think the process is legitimate. If people are meant to guard the government and keep it in its cage, then well, I'd rethink that wisdom about now.

[smttysmth02gt]

@leavesofliberty Couldn't the same be said about your anarchistic ideas? Me thinks so. I'd rather trust something that has worked in time when followed, rather than something that would not work with such stupid and incompetent people.

[smttysmth02gt]

@leavesofliberty In corporatism, it doesn't matter. Remember, is it the politicians or the corporations calling the shots? Or does it matter when they are both the same?The problem exists in a lack of enforcement of laws, not in the existence of them.

[leavesofliberty]

@smttysmth02gt Well, so far, it seems pretty utopian to me to expect people in group A to actually land in power, and far more utopian still to expect them to obey magic scrolls. If they are uneducated and need rulers, then how does one expect them to pick rulers, and how does one expect them to be intelligent enough to keep government to size, especially when there are perverse incentives for individuals to defect and reap huge profits from government intervention. It's rubbish.

[leavesofliberty]

@smttysmth02gt If prices are put on people's heads, low and behold, of course the market is going to fill it.