Here is another point that is worth making because anti-Mormons constantly ( and I believe purposefully ) get this wrong.
LDS don't believe that everything every church leader ever said throughout LDS history is doctrinal truth and must be accepted. That simply is not how it works. If the prophet receives a new doctrinal truth to be accepted by the church, it goes through a canonization process. Do you understand what that means?
Goh: What's the big deal anyway? Who cares if God the Father came to Earth and had sexual intercourse with Mary?
There are many problems with it. First and foremost, it contradicts LDS scripture.
Goh: beieve Brigham and stop putting words in his mouth.
I think it is you who is putting words in his mouth. At no point did Brigham Young specify the actual method of conception (again, Brigham's point was that God the Father was the Father. The point WAS NOT an explanation of exactly HOW).
What's the big deal anyway? Who cares if God the Fahter came to Earth and had sexual intercourse with Mary? You believe in modern-day revelation right? Then beieve Brigham and stop putting words in his mouth.
This is where Anti-Mormons go completely off base.
Why do you think Mormons MUST believe what certain people assume LDS leaders meant in statements like this.
Adam-God is a perfect example. LDS scripture is very clear that Michael was an archangel who then was born as Adam. Brigham also taught this. The Adam-God theory as anti-Mormons would have us believe is not only contradictory to Brigham's own statements, but more importantly...contradicts official scripture. Yet we must believe it?
Expose: "Brigham Young, Parley Pratt and others have said God came to earth and gave Mary a thumping"
Two points made in this video:
1) Brigham never actually said this. This is an assumption that some people make (especially, those who want to make Mormons look bad).
2) Even if some Mormon leaders did believe this, it is contrary to official doctrine and therefore your everyday average Mormons don't believe it. Nor are they required to, because prophets aren't viewed by LDS as infallible.
In one aspect you are correct, but in another you are wrong. I have read the context of these quotes in their entirety. The point wasn't about the virgin birth if you read the context. It was about WHO IS THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST?
The overriding message of Brigham (again, if you read the context) was that God the Father is the Father of Jesus Christ. This was contrary to the erroneous view that the Holy Spirit was the father. The Holy Spirit was present, ... but was not the father.
GohModly: Brigham and others have couched their "natural" statements in very coy language so as to suggest intercourse.
I don't think he was being "coy" or "couching" his language. Brigham Young probably never imagined that his words would be scrutinized to the degree they have been 130 years after his death. I don't think he ever imagined this "controversy". Yes, we are speculating, but I speculate on the side of "official doctrine", what the Book of Mormon says about the virgin birth.
Brigham Young and other have couched their "natural" statements in very coy language so as to suggest intercourse. Truthfully, we'll never know what Brigham, Kimball, Pratt and the other early Utah leaders meant because of their coy language so we can only speculate as to what they meant. But don't be so surprised if Young did mean intercourse. It wouldn't be the first false doctrine he taught. See Adam-God.
@smpf38 Brigham Young, Parley Pratt and others have said God came to earth and gave Mary a thumping. He never belied what you say. And when he said the above it wasn't to confirm 2000 years of Christianity, it was to CONTRADICT It. that was the point. You know Mormonism Contradicts Mainstream Christianity along many lines. And this is one of them. Again, this quote is to Prove Mormon doctrine, not to prove or confirm Christian doctrine
"Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.... And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms."
So again, the official book says that Mary was a virgin. We also believe that God the Father is literally the Father of Jesus Christ. So, LDS reconcile those two doctrinal points by believing that God had a way to "overshadow" Mary and fertilize the egg without actually having intercourse with her.
Goh: You believe in modern-day revelation right?
Here is another point that is worth making because anti-Mormons constantly ( and I believe purposefully ) get this wrong.
LDS don't believe that everything every church leader ever said throughout LDS history is doctrinal truth and must be accepted. That simply is not how it works. If the prophet receives a new doctrinal truth to be accepted by the church, it goes through a canonization process. Do you understand what that means?
smpf38 2 years ago
Goh: What's the big deal anyway? Who cares if God the Father came to Earth and had sexual intercourse with Mary?
There are many problems with it. First and foremost, it contradicts LDS scripture.
Goh: beieve Brigham and stop putting words in his mouth.
I think it is you who is putting words in his mouth. At no point did Brigham Young specify the actual method of conception (again, Brigham's point was that God the Father was the Father. The point WAS NOT an explanation of exactly HOW).
smpf38 2 years ago
What's the big deal anyway? Who cares if God the Fahter came to Earth and had sexual intercourse with Mary? You believe in modern-day revelation right? Then beieve Brigham and stop putting words in his mouth.
GohModley 2 years ago
This is where Anti-Mormons go completely off base.
Why do you think Mormons MUST believe what certain people assume LDS leaders meant in statements like this.
Adam-God is a perfect example. LDS scripture is very clear that Michael was an archangel who then was born as Adam. Brigham also taught this. The Adam-God theory as anti-Mormons would have us believe is not only contradictory to Brigham's own statements, but more importantly...contradicts official scripture. Yet we must believe it?
smpf38 2 years ago
Expose: "Brigham Young, Parley Pratt and others have said God came to earth and gave Mary a thumping"
Two points made in this video:
1) Brigham never actually said this. This is an assumption that some people make (especially, those who want to make Mormons look bad).
2) Even if some Mormon leaders did believe this, it is contrary to official doctrine and therefore your everyday average Mormons don't believe it. Nor are they required to, because prophets aren't viewed by LDS as infallible.
smpf38 2 years ago
In one aspect you are correct, but in another you are wrong. I have read the context of these quotes in their entirety. The point wasn't about the virgin birth if you read the context. It was about WHO IS THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST?
The overriding message of Brigham (again, if you read the context) was that God the Father is the Father of Jesus Christ. This was contrary to the erroneous view that the Holy Spirit was the father. The Holy Spirit was present, ... but was not the father.
smpf38 2 years ago
GohModly: Brigham and others have couched their "natural" statements in very coy language so as to suggest intercourse.
I don't think he was being "coy" or "couching" his language. Brigham Young probably never imagined that his words would be scrutinized to the degree they have been 130 years after his death. I don't think he ever imagined this "controversy". Yes, we are speculating, but I speculate on the side of "official doctrine", what the Book of Mormon says about the virgin birth.
smpf38 2 years ago
Brigham Young and other have couched their "natural" statements in very coy language so as to suggest intercourse. Truthfully, we'll never know what Brigham, Kimball, Pratt and the other early Utah leaders meant because of their coy language so we can only speculate as to what they meant. But don't be so surprised if Young did mean intercourse. It wouldn't be the first false doctrine he taught. See Adam-God.
GohModley 2 years ago
@smpf38 Brigham Young, Parley Pratt and others have said God came to earth and gave Mary a thumping. He never belied what you say. And when he said the above it wasn't to confirm 2000 years of Christianity, it was to CONTRADICT It. that was the point. You know Mormonism Contradicts Mainstream Christianity along many lines. And this is one of them. Again, this quote is to Prove Mormon doctrine, not to prove or confirm Christian doctrine
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
"Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.... And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms."
So again, the official book says that Mary was a virgin. We also believe that God the Father is literally the Father of Jesus Christ. So, LDS reconcile those two doctrinal points by believing that God had a way to "overshadow" Mary and fertilize the egg without actually having intercourse with her.
It is quite simple.
smpf38 2 years ago