Gordon Clark comments on "compatibilist" language.

Compatibilist are fond of using the phrase "freedom of the will," but should they?

This comes from his book "Predestination" pg. 81

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[Haukman66]

What Clark book is this video from Chris? Great video by the way!  God bless.

[fivepointbaptist]

@Haukman66 Predestination

[StutteringDave]

Can't wait for Redbeetle to make a video frothing at the mouth in anger that an illogical work-salvationist noncalvinist Roman Catholic like you would dare quote his beloved Clark.

[fivepointbaptist]

@StutteringDave LOL! He would really blow a gasket if I were to quote Clark saying something else I found in his book today. We'll see!

[zmode82]

Ah! So you got the book finally!

[fivepointbaptist]

@zmode82 Had it for a bit; bout 2/3 through right now. Very good reading.

[BeholdTheCross]

When I use the phrase "freedom of the will" all I mean is we can make choices that flow naturally from our characters. God does not usually cause us to do things that do not naturally flow from our characters, so in this special sense our wills are not restricted by him. Uncaused choices are simply not an option because such a concept is meaningless nonsense. Though our wills are controlled by God they are controlled by God to behave consistently with our characters.

[Haukman66]

@fivepointbaptist Okay, great book. I wasnt sure, I read it months ago. Great stuff!!

[edwardpf123]

@1689Baptist -Grace is grace even if you don't accept it. It is rejected grace. As for the phrase 'God made me do it' your jumping to the 'devil made me do it' and then stating that 'God does not whisper evil thought in our ears and 'resenting the implication' has to be one of the biggest strawman you have ever constructed.

No, God doesn't 'whisper in your ears' but according to you, you have no REAL free will, so God's choices are the ones you are REALLY making, not yours-including sinning.

[1689Baptist]

@edwardpf123 Grace is unmerited favor, or better yet it is favor when we have an active demerit. How can you call grace grace when it is not grace at all until given permission to be grace by the man receiving it?

Yes, I agree with what you said except the phrase 'God made me do it' It is the same phrase used by sinners "oh the devil made me do it" God does not whisper evil thought in our ears, I resent your implication.

[edwardpf123]

@1689Baptist - Why would rejecting grace make it any less grace? Grace is unmerited favor-a gift. If I choose to reject the gift, it doesn't make it any less a gift? The Arminian view was always that God gave grace to all men, but that it was not irresistable.

SoSo God caused you to reject free will? And God is causing me not to? Your final answer for every decision you make and thought you have (including sin) is that 'God made me do it'-He is the ultimate cause.

[1689Baptist]

@edwardpf123 I have never heard anyone who believes in free will grace has any bearing on free will. If it does how can a will be free? Now if you want to talk about conviction ok, but now we can really talk about an unfair God.

The point is how can one reject grace and it still be grace?

you said, "The fact that you came to reject free will shows that you have it" No it does not, you have not proven my rejection is uncaused, and you cannot prove it unless you are omniscient.

[edwardpf123]

@1689Baptist -The point of the video is that Clark is telling Calvinists to be honest on what those who defend free will believe. He, however, inserted a false view himself when he stated we believe that the will (in spiritual matters) operates outside the grace or apart from the grace of God. What we say is that we either respond to or reject that grace, and that response or rejection is itself an uncaused cause. The fact that you came to reject free will shows that you have it.

[1689Baptist]

@edwardpf123 Clark did not lie, Grace and free will are incompatible, the study of God's grace is one of the reasons I came to reject free will. Grace must be outside of man or it cannot be grace!