Peter Kreeft The Existence of God part 4 of 8 apologetics

Boston University Philosopher and Catholic Apologist , Peter Kreeft lectures on The Existence of God

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[YouBlockedMeOut]

@ grandconjunct, who knows God and his objective morals.

Jacob Bronowski (1973), speaking of Auschwitz, wrote:

Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by dogma. It was done by arrogance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

[grandconjunct]

Either murdering jews is objectively wrong by an objectivbe Moral law giver or it is only a subjective opinion, and diffrent people vote on whats right and wrong, the nazis thought they could vote on if murdering jewswas like hunting animals or spraying ants and in a Godless universe there is no morality. No one we are accountable to its all arbitrary Atheist opinion so Nazi voted that way you and mr bronowski are the people who create holocahsts Not people who believe in objective Evil.

[kmatzukaze]

Actually, the Judeo-Christian god has asked many times for murder.

I Samuel 15:2-3

Numbers 31:17-18

Numbers 31:25-35

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Exodus 21:15

Exodus 22:20

Leviticus 20:10

Leviticus 24:13-14

[malilu100]

Do you really think, Abraham needed golden tablets with commandments to know that sacrificing his son was not right? Do you really think, telling people to obey commandments given by an authority can be sold as a good reason to be moral?

Teach them to listen to their needs and the needs of others and how to think on their own. Morals are within us - regardless of the existence of God! Evolutionary epistemology and related sciences have explained this already.

[DarthHater100]

On matters of opinion, truth is SUBJECTive. That means it is not absolute, there is no write answer or wrong answer. You don't get it. It doesn't matter if 'I' find what the Nazis did wrong. It doesn't matter if 100% of all people AND God agree. It is still an OPINION from the point of view of a SUBJECT. It's "SUBJECTIVE". I don't know how to put this in any plainer language. Maybe you should Google the terms 'subjective', 'objective', and 'truth'. You don't seem to know what they mean.

[VoiceOfModeration]

Truth is independent of minds and only exists in them as understood and accepted. Truth is BY NATURE objective and actual. If you really don't believe that what the Nazis did was morally disgusting, then that might be an interesting psychological fact about you, but it plays no role in the discussion.

[DarthHater100]

Objectiveness can only apply to things that are independent of minds, like 2 x 2 is 4. Right or wrong is a matter of judgment. Judgments are contingent on the minds making the judgment, and are therefore, by definition, subjective by their very nature. Even if GOD says green is the prettiest color, it is still a judgement call and still therefore, subjective. You will never find an ultimate truth on subjective matters, that would be contradictory and impossible.

[VoiceOfModeration]

truth is independent of all things. Really, think about it for 2 minutes. People can believe different things but they can also be wrong - just as Nazis, Paul Bernardo and so on are obviously wrong. And you know it, just give it up already.

[DarthHater100]

The Nazi Holocaust wasn't wrong in the minds of the Nazis. They BELIEVED that the Jewish 'race' was sub-human and a rat like parasite. It was not 'objectively' wrong. From their point of view it was right. This DEMONSTRATES that morality IS subjective. Just because WE can all agree on the wrongness of the holocaust doesnt make it objective.

[VoiceOfModeration]

On the contrary, Mussolini himself said:

"Relativism is fascism. If there is no right and wrong then there is only the strongest person."

I think it's more arrogant to say, "I as an individual get to make up whatever truth I want to believe in based on how I want to live my life." Who are you to rewrite world history or declare what is right and what is wrong?

The Nazi Holocaust was objectively wrong.

[YouBlockedMeOut2]

@ Grandconjunct

Your words: 'Helping people to doubt their doubts'

Grandconjunct, you bite the hand that feeds you!

Fools are spreading excessive scepticism because they don't realize that they are cutting off the very branch they are sitting on.

But the deciever is doing it in order to pave the way to (blind) faith!

[grandconjunct]

Golden Tablets ?

The bible points to the Moral Law it 's not itself the Moral law. Malilu either Morality is objective or subjective,God keeps it objective, Atheism makes it subjective which reduces to relativism which reduces to nihilism If there is no God there is no such thing as Morality. only an illuision. Why should anyone care about others needs if there is no Morality only chemical feelings within us ? science doesnt discover morality it can build a bomb but not tell us when to use it.