3 0f 3 David Hockney, The Lost Secrets of the Old Masters: camera lucida obscura

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This is a very interesting interview with David Hockney, where he explains and demonstrates the use of camera obscuras and camera lucidas in the artwork of the Old Masters chronicled in his book Secret Knowledge: Rediscovering the Lost Techniques of the Old Masters. 3 of 3

Category:

Education

Tags:

• camera lucida
• camera obscura
• David Hockney
• Secret Knowledge
• old masters
• drawing
• painting

[1414mwh]

@TheStefanNestor I think every artist has their own interpretation of reality, which inevitably shows itself in their work, but I can't entertain Hockney's theories because they dwell on the lines of a painting. I'm sure some artists did use camera obscura, but I think the overall message is a generalization of realist artists. I consider myself a skeptic, but I find his theories hard to swallow, and it seems to me that his goal has been to turn a non-issue into a money making scheme.

[TheStefanNestor]

@TheStefanNestor If on the other hand, we should, accept radically Hockney's theory(i.e that the Old Masters were not as much talented in observing), how could we explain the forms they paint? I mean, they paint a human face and nothing is strange about it, it seems real, but only until we compare it with a real face - than, we can see it is nothing like it!It is obviously a completely different language!

[TheStefanNestor]

@TheStefanNestor I am, as yourself,of the opinion though that the method would be impractical to use for shading and painting, and I think that it could have only been used as a didactic, revealing mean in the early Quattrocento by, say, Piero della Francesca and perhaps, architects.For drawing only.

[TheStefanNestor]

@TheStefanNestor As to the method: If we put aside the ethical considerations in an eventual use of the contrivance, there is nothing so impossible in the possibility of it's use: Renessaince artists were extremely curious(everybody knows Durer's drawing of an artist drawing a nude using a grid): Da Vinci wrote of a method of accurately copying 3d statues in marble, and pierced cardboards(though, perhaps, at a somewhat later point) were used for quick drawing affrescos.

[TheStefanNestor]

@1414mwh As to the audience: It should be kept in mind, though, that the audience we're talking about("if as you say, it* gets lost in some of the audience"), is after all already convinced that art is mere copying.

So it makes little difference,I think.

[TheStefanNestor]

@1414mwh As to Hockney: I don't think he's a genius, and I don't mean to idolize him, but for my part I should say that I have lately seen some of his ink wash drawings, portraits(that are not so easy to find on google - I saw them in a book on Hockney)that are interesting and show a peculiar character in the depicted and that that could hardly be a consequence of the usage of a grid.But that's just my opinion :)

[1414mwh]

@TheStefanNestor Rembrandt think that it explains away the skill of very talented artists. I realize that there is much more to it than the lines of the painting, which is why it bothers me on a personal level. A painting is so much more than that, but unfortunately, I think that is lost on some of his audience. It hinders artists trying to sell their work today and makes a mockery of some of the best artists in history. I understand what you're saying, but that's why I think it is a big deal.

[1414mwh]

@TheStefanNestor ...would never be in the same place as you looked back and forth from your canvas while painting. I'm a realist painter, and I've had people ask me if I know who David Hockney is, and considering there are very few similarities between our work, I assume the real question they're alluding to is, "Do you use a grid"? It puts a black eye on a whole new generation of realist artists, because to people who don't understand the sentiment surrounding your comments about Rembrandt...

[1414mwh]

@TheStefanNestor I've seen his drawings, and they are somewhat realistic, but what bothers me is the stigma surrounding the use of grids and camera obscura. It seems like his aim is to debunk the skill of realist artists. The problem with his theory is that there are many artists capable of creating realist art from live models without the use of these the tools mentioned, which is far more believable considering how difficult it would be to shade in the dark, or to use a wire grid which...

[TheStefanNestor]

@1414mwh Actually,what he does IS realist art.His drawings are as realist as they get, without going to the other extreme of hyper-realism.I also don't get it-so what if artists did use it(even though we can't quite know and all we can do is guess)?Big deal;a Rembrandt is not a Rembrandt because he is capable of copying and imitating. There's so much more to it, which is inherently deep and human and delicate,refreshing,suave,even harsh or playful at times.FOR THAT - there can be no contraption.