John Piper - Is it OK to drink alcohol?

http://desiringGod.org

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• john
• piper
• desiring
• god
• bethlehem
• bapitst
• church
• minneapolis
• minnesota
• jesus
• christ
• christianity
• drinking

[stanstankov2]

Drinking alcohol is not illegal according to God, even Jesus drank wine. But drinking a couple drinks with friends is a totally different thing than drowning yourself with booze.

[donteetpeople]

I used to be an alcoholic. I have chosen to stay away from drinking any alcohol -- even wine -- because I don't want to fall into the temptation of returning to that lifestyle. I don't think drinking alcohol is inherently wrong. I don't condemn those who have a beer or two occasionally nor should I. I have chosen to abstain from it because I was once addicted to it. Therefore I think, for me, it would be wrong for me to consume it. I have been sober for nearly two years and I don't miss it.

[BrotherofWord]

@JudgeEden

The unfermented wine agrument is a holdover from the temperance movement. Answer these two questions honestly and we'll discuss:

1) Why would the m.c. of the wedding feast of Cana (Jn 2:10) say "when the guests have well drunk" if the wine was non-alcoholic?

2) Why did they accuse Jesus of being a winebibber (Lk7:34) if He was drinking grapejuice?

[LightWthoutTheStatic]

@JudgeEden Did Jesus, Paul, or the disciples explicitly ever say drinking was a sin? I'm not saying someone can't make it a sin. But is the act of drinking itself inherently sinful? "I just know a sin when I see one" really? So you don't need God to inform your own blinded heart? Drunkenness is definitely a sin, but one can still be fully sober minded on a glass of wine.

[JudgeEden]

@LightWthoutTheStatic

That analogy does not prove anything you're saying. There are plenty of good drinks that aren't alcoholic. Good food doesn't impair your judgement. I am not a Pharisee, I just know a sin when I see one, I also see compromise.

The scriptures say that we should be sober minded. You cant be fully sober minded if you're drinking alcohol. Whether you're getting literally drunk or not.

[LightWthoutTheStatic]

@JudgeEden If you want to do the world any good for Christ the last thing you should be worried about it how you can tell people what they OUGHT to be doing. The Spirit of God is the convictor, not you. If you love Christ, your job is to love. Telling people it's a sin to drink when that's not what Jesus OR Paul OR the disciples said is a religious spirit and from the antichrist. It's false. I follow Christ's law because He fulfilled the entire law for me and I love them both.

[LightWthoutTheStatic]

@JudgeEden A. there is nothing living in hell. B. Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly C. Jesus never said to drink was to sin D. You're being ridiculous about this, condemning anyone who drinks alcohol when every greek and hebrew reference to Christ drinking normally means real wine (or even the inerrant POSSIBILITY of him doing so since the word takes both meanings) E. John Piper does have a clue, what degrees do you have? F. the benefits of wine are not myths, they're scientifically proven.

[LightWthoutTheStatic]

@JudgeEden You didn't respond to why Jesus himself would use the analogy of fermenting wine. You're a pharisee to say the enjoyment of a drink is equated with alcoholism. Might as well say that enjoying good food is also a love of worldliness. So wrong. The spirit is merely better.

[JudgeEden]

@LightWthoutTheStatic

Moreover, when Jesus performed the last supper he specified the bread be unleavened. Why is that? Because the Yeast used to make bread requires a bit of FERMENTATION. Bread doesn't make you drunk though, so, if He didn't even want leavened bread to represent His body, why in the living Hell would He drink alcohol?

John Piper doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

[JudgeEden]

@LightWthoutTheStatic

What cup are you speaking of that Jesus took? I've read the Bible, that is not familiar to me. In fact, the only time Jesus has said anything was bitter that was a liquid was when he was being fed Vinegar while on the cross. There is not a single place in scripture that Jesus drank alcohol, sorry.

And Wineskins does not mean alcohol skins. As I said, the word can mean both. But the Hebrew word meant fruit juice.

[JudgeEden]

@LightWthoutTheStatic

Even a modern dictionary will have unfermented fruit juice as one of the definitions for Wine. The Bible has a few instances where it speaks of alcoholic beverages in disgust, not neutrality. These so-called "benefits" of alcoholic Wine are myths and are not exclusive to alcohol. Alcoholics like to justify their love for drinking, however.

Alcohol is good for cleaning, it should hardly ever be introduced to the inside of your body.

[LightWthoutTheStatic]

@JudgeEden I don't believe you. Wine is wine. Wine needs to actually have alcohol content to be wine. Wine (alcoholic) is useful and beneficial for a host of reasons such as sanitation (the alcohol content) & the longevity of the drink. Jesus himself used the analogy of wineskins (Matt. 9:17). Grape juice (natural) would still be relatively sweet (even without sugar), yet when Jesus took the cup he called it bitter. Lev. 10:8 was levitical law, unique from the commandments in nature and purpose.