Consumer Democracy?

The point of this video is not to attack markets per se but how they are perceived as being democratic.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Dollar Democracy
• Consumer Democracy
• Anarchism
• Libertarian Socialism
• Participatory Democracy

[Mystic1Knight]

hmmm.... how much of these inherent problems in a free market society would be solved by Mutualism?or would we have to go even beyond that??

[LeftLibetyAppendix]

@Mystic1Knight I think many of the problems would be solved by a Mutualist society. Going beyond that would be my solution but that just my opinion.

[cdgtheory]

Continuing... specialization and the division of labor specifically imply a lack of knowledge and a lot of ignorance. So unless you're advocating for [something closer to] primitivism, I think you're in a bind there. Ultimately, pro-marketers defend it as being the best alternative, not as a magic solution. Social ethics and culture are essential to all economic systems, of course. I assume that you'll be covering how non-market anarchism would work, but I thought I'd throw out those points...

[LeftLibetyAppendix]

@cdgtheory The arguments for democracy doesn't require near perfect information but the dollar democracy argument does (at least one form of it). It also depends on the type of democracy you are referring to. In small groups it is conceivable that one could receive full information. However, as you said, in many situations full knowledge can never be obtained. Again, this is more of an attack by those who put "perfect information" implicitly into their arguments.

[cdgtheory]

I don't think the people who describe markets as "democratic" are being totally literal. I see a couple problems as well. 1) It's generally argued that customers are voting on a final good, not on the entire structure of production, the corporations and the things those corporations support. Sure there are those factors involved in the "voting" process, but they are not primary. 2) If perfect information is a requirement of markets or democracy then I don't see how either are possible.

[LeftLibetyAppendix]

@cdgtheory Thanks for the comment. It really depends who you talk to about whether they mean the final good or the production. Many will argue that racist business will close in a free market because people will choose not to consume there. When somebody points out corrupt business practice or the use of sweatshops, the reply is usually, "just don't buy those products." My video is more of an attack on the latter.

[fede2]

that's it. i'm subbing.

[DesecrateConformity]

@Mystic1Knight The great thing about mutualism and market anarchism (not anarcho-capitalism), is that it allows for TheLeftLibertarian's type of society, and a decentralized free market. I personally would favor entrepreneurship in a decentralized market, because I'm socially inept by nature (that's why I'm turned off by social anarchism), but, that's just me.

[qrqrqrqr1]

I don't think the "voting with your dollar" analogy is claiming that when you buy a product you're voting for everything that company does, but simply that you're voting for that product. The fact that people have imperfect knowledge of how their purchases affect the world is actually pretty analogous to political democracy. When people vote for a particular monetary or fiscal policies, for example, most of the voters have no idea what they're doing. They just vote for the charismatic demagogue.

[PeacefulCooperation]

@LeftLibetyAppendix Racism would still be bad business. Even if consumers were completely ignorant of whether or not a company was racist or not, market forces would still act against racist companies. For example, let's say I'm a racist employer. I interview two people. One person is white and one is black. Imagine that the black person is more qualified for the job than the white person, but I hire the white person because I am racist. Such a racist decision just lost me potential profit.

[n8chz]

@LeftLibetyAppendix Perfect information, like perfect anything, is at best an asymptotic goal, but surely there is quite a gulf between the status quo and perfect information, which is to say, loads of room for improvement. Perhaps the implementation of pubwan can introduce substantial transparency into the economy.

[dendryite]

Abso-effing-lutely

[Nawledge1]

WE WANT MORE VIDS MAN!!

[chadyo99]

More reason to buy local, not be a mindless consumer and buy used. That way you can visit the farm you get your food from, get a fan at a yard sale and be happier with less. I think the dollar democracy concept has more weight when you include this perspective. We're not all buying from the massive Wal-Mart-like supply chains.