Priest says Hell is an invention of the church to control people with fear

John Shelby Spong

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  News & Politics

[Jamie Duncan]

further in my journey I have tried to grow spiritually whilst endeavouring to maintain the faith and joy of a child. to simply say we need to grow up is not enough I believe - we need to strip away as well. in this sense we become more like children, meek humble, joyous faithful although we at the same time grow deeper in our understanding and wiser.

[Jamie Duncan]

his railing against the church is spot on though for a different reason. how could a church of God bring on antisemitism to the point the catholic church did when every person including the messiah whom they revere - Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, James etc etc were all torah practicing jews?

[Jamie Duncan]

here's where I have a problem with the words of this pastor. all his knowledge of God originated within scripture via some church, the very thing he denigrates. without the scripture he would not have sought God. this is like the roofer who denigrates the people who build walls, as if one can have roofs without a supporting structure. further his rejection of the word is directly against Jesus and what Jesus represents - the living embodiment of the torah.

[TenderTrap86]

- "simply told people that he was the "son of god" and most would have accepted it without question" -

When word got out that Jesus may be the Son of God, He was tortured and crucified.

Do you know what you're actually refuting?

[Matt Jones]

But that's the thing, when it comes to knowledge we are. If the people around back then had the knowledge that we do today, do you honestly believe that the bible would have even been created? Back then somebody could claim something and it simply could not be disproved, for example either jesus himself (or someone who knew him) could have simply told people that he was the "son of god" and most would have accepted it without question. This simply wouldn't (and doesnt) happen today

[TenderTrap86]

My point is that people are just as superstitious today. We are not any better or worse just because we happen to be living in this era.

[Matt Jones]

There are people who have certain superstitions today, like the the ones you mentioned. However, it is guaranteed that these superstitious beliefs will accomplish absolutely nothing, for example in the case of the play off's, if a supporter was to not wash their clothes, does that really mean their team is going to win? No, its just a silly belief that the person has. And its the same with the people at the time of jesus, only in relation to jesus being the son of god instead

[TenderTrap86]

The key word is "compiled". They weren't written centuries after Christ, but compiled.

The people who compiled the Bible didn't "conveniently ignore" some texts. As already stated, we have historically authentic documents from early Christian writers and those who codified the Bible could hold them up to each other to compare and contrast.

"people back then were known to be superstitous" - Like people who carry rabbit's feet or don't wash their clothes when their team's in the playoffs?