Dan Says - Simulated Universe is Impossible (Undecidable)

Hello everybody!

The following is a video just discussing the impossibility of developing a computational model for computing a universe with perfect consistency with our own neverless of CPU, GPU or anything but, the nature of computing and the theorems abiding these laws. I could have easily taken the Godel's Incompleteness Theorem route but, I preferred to stick to strictly computational theorems in regards to universal problems. Keep in mind that scoped simulations are possible but, they must avoid every important concept to devise them. The largest issues relate to simulating the infinite (which is impossible to do on a finite machine with infinite precision for some instances). This concept is bunk. It's useful though to simulate things in the universe though but, some things cannot be correctly simulated based on simulation theory and computability theory in theoretical computer science.

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[MDEMONIC689]

Not everything in the universe would have to be computed, it might only compute what we see when we attempt to observe, so atoms, trees, moons, planets etc only exist when you look at them, in videogames if you turn quickly some objects blip in and out because in videogames things really do only exist when observed to save computation power.

You only require the intelligent beings in the universe to believe it is real.

Perhaps someone hacks it sometimes and gives us crop circles and pyramids.

[Entertainmentwf]

@MDEMONIC689 The thing is those items will have a computational cost. The computational cost is not just time, but space. Thus it must be computed. Even if you stored those in a data structure or file. I don't quite follow how that is a counterargument seeing I'm discussing things not possible to be solved in theory of computation, and why our universe can't be. Undecidable problems are things that throw hoops for computation independently from machines.

[MDEMONIC689]

This of course still ignores solipsism, solipsism in philosophy leaves a bad taste in the mouth, but in terms of simulated reality it means a lot if thinking about computational power since it only requires me to exist.

I'm sure the computational power of 1 human brain is not far out of reach,but i hate solipsism as does anyone except the selfish.

So question should be: what is the computational power of ALL living observers today? all the people and animals and insects, NOT the whole universe.

[Entertainmentwf]

@MDEMONIC689 But the thing is there are many uncomputable things in our universe. Heck look at us. We can decide things no machine can ever do. This is why computation has undecidable theorems. Computation is a one to one correspondence with algorithms, and if the Church-Turing Thesis is infact true, it's definitely an impossibility.

One can easily augment your problem to a computational geometry problem of plane clipping problem then apply the same reasoning again. Mortality Problem...

[Cigarboxal]

If some things can be simulated, then all things can be simulated.

[Entertainmentwf]

@MDEMONIC689 like I said... that has nothing to do with computability. Quantum computability doesn't contradict the foundations of computing. Even if that were true, that doesn't resolve computability. I am quite sure that isn't true since most quantum algorithms use finite processors. Quantum computation has it's own model of a Turing Machine called the Quantum Turing Machine. If we had one we could get linear time integer factorization but I will wait till it's actually constructed.

[MDEMONIC689]

According to prof david deutsch a quantum computer would have infinite parallel processors because its working across the multiverse, that does not sound like a turing machine, he says turing devices collapse the wavefunction and thats the issue.

I don't know if hes a lunatic or not because i don't understand the computational stuff but if he is correct then a quantum computer is actually working with other versions of itself, gives rise to infinite calculations per second.

[MDEMONIC689]

@Entertainmentwf

Im looking it from the philosophical and science angle.

By science i mean specifically as a go between the copenhagen and many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics I just find it interesting that it looks like it sits inbetween both, schrodingers cat is an interesting thought experiment and it did make me think about why there is such a strong observer effect, The delayed choice quantum eraser experiment is of particular interest.

[Entertainmentwf]

@Lok783 ... I just explained that in this video...

[Lok783]

How do you know this universe wont halt?