Why Socialism 2009: Amherst

Members and allies of the International Socialist Organization in Amherst, Massachusetts talk about why they're excited to go to the Socialism 2009 Conference, June 18-21 in Chicago and July 2-5 in San Francisco: www.socialismconference.org. Music is "Right Now" by Abu Nurah featuring Pope Innocent

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Socialism
• Socialism 2009
• Marxism
• Marx
• Activism
• Crisis
• Capitalism

[beelz3333]

Where's all the money going to come from to pay for socialism over the long term?You can only tax the "greedy" businessman so much before you run out of their money and discourage people from becoming successful in the first place. Where does all the innovation in new life saving healthcare etc come from? Capitalism. It sounds really nice that everyone can be taken care of from cradle to grave but in reality it's completely unaffordable and unrealistic without a MASSIVE drop in living standards.

[cptflume]

Well, as a healthcare worker I can tell you that the majority of people do not have access to those innovations. My idea of socialism is not to meet human need by taxing capitalists but my having worker control of the economy and production. And an expansion of education would allow the mass of people to participate in increasing productivity, with the incentive of producing more through working less, etc.

[beelz3333]

Would you expect a big drop in living standards under such a system?

[cptflume]

I actually wouldn't expect a drop. On the contrary, I'd expect a rise. For example, over $1 trillion per year is spent on advertising, and another $1 trillion on military. That money could go towards raising living standards. And because productivity gains would meet the interests of all (instead of just a few as exists under capitalism), I think we'd see gains in living standards from that on a scale difficult to imagine today.

[beelz3333]

Where's that money going to come from though?

[cptflume]

Well enough value is already produced to meet the needs of all, and that could be increased by providing jobs for the unemployed.

[IneptTroopr]

I think you don't understand where wealth comes from. Its not "innovative entrepreneurs" as is commonly thought, its through the labor of those who produce the profits for the rich. If they were to democratically control production, they control all the wealth in the world. That kind of world doesn't need incentives for people to get rich, because there would be no rich or poor where every person has a say in running society at large.

[rlgee]

Nice job, Comrades and Friends! Looking forward to seeing you in Chicago!

[Bopkasen]

@cptflume How do you find jobs? Does any of the socialist people know that the government runned by democrat and republican aren't supportive of banning outsourcing?

What your take for illegal immigrant? How about some jobs? *show mic

[Bopkasen]

Human need and corporate greed? What about government greed?

[spartan2600]

No, actual Nazis. Can't say if they've literally measured skulls, but they covered themselves in Swastikas and other obvious Nazi symbolism.

[ThanklessExpediency]

And by "Nazis" I'm sure you mean "anyone who disagrees with you"; Not actual, skull-measuring Fascist Nazis.

The mind boggles at the irony.

[IneptTroopr]

I'd have to say all that happens all the time under modern capitalism as well, especially during its endemic economic crises.

[beelz3333]

So, millions dead as a result of starvation because of the state running agriculture and healthcare, not bothersome?

Lining up for hours every day for some rations of bread, not bothersome?

Having a pension when the currency is worthless and won't buy anything, not bothersome?

Having healthcare even though millons starved and were riddled with disease, not bothersome?

Be careful wat you wish fr. Capitalism isn't perfect but you'd be screaming for it if you lived in a 100% socialized country.

[beelz3333]

Neither are socialist countries.

It's like saying Bush was a socialist because of doubling the size of Dept of Education, bailing out the banks, the auto industry, Medicare and Medicaid etc.

Most economies are mixed at this point but one thing is for sure, if you get rid of capitalism and go 100% socialism, you have big trouble ahead. Socialized industries require capitalism to do all the hard work for them. Swedens hospitals don't get their technology and medicine from socialism.

[spartan2600]

I'm not suggesting that the Soviet Union was ideal, far from it. I'm saying there actually were good things that it did. But the bad parts, the lack of personal freedom, the state secrecy, lack of democracy, etc. are all bad.

But apparently Russians aren't too bothered by all those bad things, I think that goes to show how capitalism has miserably failed them. I think that Bush claimed that democracy inevitably comes in a capitalist society, Russia proves that wrong.

[spartan2600]

that is included in a loose definition of socialism, but have more public workers and nationalizing industries *definitely* counts as socialism. the dictionary definition of socialism is 'control of the means of production in the hands of the people.' I'm not sure about Sweden, but Denmark, which is similar has about half of the entire population in public jobs.