"Cherokee" analyzed for jazz playing

I go over the sets of pieces which make up the tune; Here "ii, V7" means the chord built on the second step in the key and the dominant seven which is based upon the fifth step in the key; these "suggest" a particular "key center"; for minor keys it is a ii half-diminished (or mi b5), and V7; this suggests a minor key

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• cherokee
• be-bop
• bebop
• jazz
• improv
• sax
• trumpet
• guitar

[terrryc]

Another egghead analyzing the song to death. Follow your ears, Beethoven. Oh wait. That motherfu@er was deaf...

[crtune]

@terrryc Cherokee is a very popular song for jazz improvisers to play "improv" solos over. This kind of analysis is DESIGNED to help a person who is wanting to improvise using this chord progression. I get tons of criticism, but I actually am able to improvise quite well over just his sort of set of chord changes. I'm trying to HELP. You may want to realize there are many purposes for videos. Of course the SOUND comes first. That is assumed. Please do not read too much into things.

[Kaitano94]

Are these the changes used for the Clifford Brown version of Cherokee? I've seen different ones in different books but they all were published recently so maybe they were reharmonized.

[crtune]

@Kaitano94 I have not listened carefully to the Clifford rendering. I have listened to it, casually many times, and admire it. But, I'd need to focus more, to be sure of each change. This is the version in the "Blue" "Great Gig Book" fake book. Probably the best way to approach learning this is to start with either a simpler, or the original, then get to know that well, going on to reharmonized versions later. Often the exact same choice of licks can work over the reharmonized version.

[crtune]

Right. Perhaps the "terminology" is not correct, but the more important thing is to understand the concept, and to be able to be practical and actually be able to improvise musically. Knowing that I should have said "tonicization" may have been better, but then, THAT term itself would have needed to be explained. What I said is a bit like a verbal SHORTHAND.

[crtune]

@JazzKeyboardist1: Right you are. My emphasis upon chord / scale and "key" you are in at any point is only a shorthand way of thinking about something which is really fundamentally about how the improv really sounds. Sound is king, and of course, there are times when something dissonant, or "out" is just what is needed. The approach I take is not to make things super easy, but to show what is happening in the music, so further good musical moments can happen. Thx.

[jjmc321]

Your analysis is fine. The whole confusion about ii-V7 or ii-V-vii is really quite silly since ii-V-vii is irrelevant. However, you could help the situation by simply just saying "two-five" instead of "two-five-seven" because the 7th of the V7 is implied. Can you think of a single V chord in jazz in which the 7th is NOT to be played? Also, if you really want to say V7, why don't you you could also specify chord quality for ii, like "ii-minor 7 - V seven." Either way, be consistent.

[alaincharnier1971]

@terrryc So, Miles, Charlie, and Dizzy never analyzed a tune like this?

[divvy1400yam600]

Interesting vid. Not least because it helps poor musicians like me to remember the middle bit.

I love music but have a very poor 'ear'.

However.

It seems to me that bar 3 is a dimished chord based on B natural and a Gminor chord is present after the A flat cord flatted 5th.

The Gmin leads to the C9th

As i say like the vid.

Only wish i could improvise on this and other 'toons'

Im speaking american now.

[terrryc]

Whatever works, works. I grew up playing in a Dixieland band where nobody read anything. The thinking was that it would wreck one's ability to improvise. "Do you read?" "Yes, but not enough to ruin my playing...."If you can get there this way, fine. Just don't try to explain it to me...(wink)..

[Littlewhitelephant]

What's more, the melody notes of part A constitue the pentatonic scale : (Bb, C, D, F, G), so Part A should please Chinese and Japanese alike.

[Littlewhitelephant]

If you analyse at all you should drop a comment on the weird relation the melody notes play in the forcibly applied changes here. The A-Part melody uses notes that all belong to Bb. So there'd be no need to modulate. So in segments 3&4 instead of Fm Bb7 normally you'd take Eb and in segment 5&6 you'd take Bb, and 7&8 you'd take F7.etc...

[RobBrooksMusic]

2-5-7 means 2-5-1?

[lifedream5]

II v I