The following argument has not been sufficiently and consistently answered since it was first posed by John Owen over 300 years ago.
"The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent...
The following argument has not been sufficiently and consistently answered since it was first posed by John Owen over 300 years ago.
"The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:
1) All the sins of all men. 2) All the sins of some men, or 3) Some of the sins of all men.
In which case it may be said: That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved. That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth. But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, "Because of unbelief." I ask, "Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it is, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"
- John Owen (The Death of Death in the Death of Christ, Book 3, Ch. 3)
A Youtube user named "Grasshopperjax" has attempted to make a rebuttal to this video and the arguments therein. Please watch his video if you have time.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJLjV... I commend grasshopperjax for taking the time to make a response to this, but this is the best of what the other side has to offer, folks.
This is part of the DVD Amazing Grace: The History and Theology of Calvinism from The Apologetics Group. You can purchase this DVD here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000...
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"Strange! that no one has ever been persecuted by the church for believing God bad, while hundreds of millions have been destroyed for thinking him good. The orthodox church will never forgive the Universalist for saying, "God is love." It has always been considered one of the very highest evidences of true and undefiled religion that all men, women and children deserve eternal damnation. It has always been heresy to say, "God will at last save all."
jgarcia6385, do you think peter, paul, and the other apostles were having alter calls ? and teaching have a personal relationship with God ? or raise your hand if you're in ? Why in all the 40-60 proclaimations of the gospel in the book of acts no one is told Christ died for you? Maybe the answer is in the last chapter of Luke that the good news of repentance and forgiveness in the name of Chist is to be preached everywhere. THE APOSTLES DIDN'T EXPLAIN THE ATONEMENT TO NON BELIEVERS !
jgarcia; Actually it's sad that in this day and age religion and Christianity is still around. It should be looked upon as fiction a long long time ago. Ignorance and gullibility will not die any time soon.
400 ad The Catholics took the 49 Original Books of the bible chopped them up into 66 then scrambled the books to hide the Truth from even their Priest, You can now order a restored bible at Amazon Books and Century one books (Coulter) 1-800-852-8346, put the bible back in Gods order read the Bible as a Progressive book and the Answer becomes Clear, Last Revelation dealing with eternal salvation, Ephesians, Phil, Col, 1st and 2nd Timothy, All saved at predestinated time, Faith is Gift, Calling is
The premise of the video is that if unbelief is a sin and Jesus died for all the sins of everyone, why doesn't everyone go to heaven since all their sins are paid for? How that is a non-sequitur is beyond me.
The belief being objected it is that Jesus died for all the sins of all men BUT THAT not all men are saved, as faith (belief, whatever) is required. Since the view is *not* that the sin of unbelief is unforgiven (unbelief disqualifies one from salvation for reasons other than the fact of its sinfulness), the argument is either flailing away at a straw-man or drawing a non-sequitur.
If you believe that Jesus atoned for all the sins of all men then there is no need for a man to be born again since the atonement has been made and there are no sins to be punished for.
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"Strange! that no one has ever been persecuted by the church for believing God bad, while hundreds of millions have been destroyed for thinking him good. The orthodox church will never forgive the Universalist for saying, "God is love." It has always been considered one of the very highest evidences of true and undefiled religion that all men, women and children deserve eternal damnation. It has always been heresy to say, "God will at last save all."
Actually it's sad that in this day and age religion and Christianity is still around. It should be looked upon as fiction a long long time ago. Ignorance and gullibility will not die any time soon.