Does Predestination Make God Unjust? (Does Anyone *Deserve* Salvation?)

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Many a person who holds to the notion that they save themselves which would be the only reason that God saves them say that Calvinism would make God unjust because everyone *deserves* a chance for salvation. Think about this for a second. What they are saying is that the One you have sinned against is *obligated* to offer you complete pardon or He is not just. Does this make any sense? Of course it doesn't. All He is obligated to give us seeing that we are guilty before Him is hell if He certainly is just.

When you press the opposition on this issue, what they are essentially objecting to is very often the notion that everyone is born guilty in Adam (original sin). They don't understand what *guilty* is, and they want to make God into less of a just being than we would expect our normal traffic court judge to be. This notion that people *deserve* a chance to be pardoned would be much like someone who has been declared guilty by a court of murdering someone and sentenced to the death penalty. The person who is claiming that God would be unjust if He didn't give the person who's sinned against Him an option for pardon would have to hold that the judge who sentenced the man who was clearly guilty of murder would be unjust by not giving the man the option to walk free if the man wanted to. It boggles the mind that there are people out there who would hold that the latter situation doesn't make sense yet they hold the Creator of the judge to a lower standard regarding justice than they do the human judge in our scenario!

Mark Kielar touches on the issue of "Calvinism making God unjust" and "if anyone deserves salvation" here in this CrossTV video.

This is from the series, "The Sovereignty of God".
http://www.crosstv.com

Category:

Education

Tags:

• calvinism
• god
• unjust
• sinners
• election
• mark
• kielar
• crosstv
• works
• righteousness

[horseman528]

Calvinism is a contridiction. First it says that people choose to sin and then it says they have no power to choose to do right. If people have no choice to choose right then that leaves only one option which is to do wrong and that is no choice at all. Everyone has the ability to choose right and wrong or else we would not be held accountable for our actions. God knows who will choose right or wrong before they do it. He predestinates by his foreknowledge. Rom. 8:29-30

[LaneCh]

@horseman528 You forget to include the premise, that is original sin. We sin because we're born into sin because of the fall. Calvinism believes that people choose to sin because they choose according to their nature. When a person is born again, their nature changes in the sense that they are now born of the Holy Spirit so they then want to do things pleasing to God. If man can choose right or wrong in God's eyes as they are, why did Jesus have to die?

[marglynn]

How evil to spread this false gospel and change the nature of God. 1 John 2:2

[LaneCh]

@marglynn Explain how it's a false gospel and changes the nature of God. I'm sure if someone came to the police and said, "marglynn stole my money. He's a liar," you'd want him to explain himself to the policeman rather than the policeman just taking his word for it and locking you up.

[MegaHillFolk]

what a distorted spew of miscontstrawed claims against arminianism. this is typical calvinist misrepresentation of freewill and sin.. shame..

[Notmineonline]

@Notmineonline I don't even Know!!!! All I know is nobody taught me all I said here but the Holy Spirit, I mean I started righting and suddenly all answers came to my mind I began to prophesy (It's amazing) and I'm not talking about me I'm talking about how good God Is, to even speak to ask when we don't deserve it.

[marglynn]

@LaneCh

Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

Salvation is a gift for anyone who chooses!! Truly good news! God's nature is not such that he would have His Son die on the cross for a predetermined few who will, against their wills perhaps, be drawn irresistably to Him.

[BazookaRIP]

@LaneCh Lane, I don't understand your example here. I looked at your website and under your About Me: in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing. Rom 7:18

I wish your about me said this:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galations 2:20

[horseman528]

@LaneCh You missed my point. There is no choice if there is only one choice. People are a mixture of both good and bad. You will not find the words "total depravity" in the bible. Yes all have sinned but that doesn't mean they are all completely depraved. Jesus died on the cross because men could not be perfect. Man's righteousness will not get him into heaven Isa. 64:6 Even non christians can be good people. Just not perfect enuf to go to heaven without the blood of Christ's sacrifice.