Original Sin or Original Forgiveness I of II

Here is a link to the original article, for those interested:
http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/toler/original_sin.html

The command to contend for our faith is explicit and cannot be ignored for sake of vanity [Jude 3; Polycarp to the Phillipians 7]. We cannot be ashamed to testify Christ 's death [Rom 14:11; II Cor 5:17; Gspl of Jhn 21:17; cf. Polycarp, Philippians 7].

Honest skeptics have the right to be doubtful, but not to demand that we ignore them [I Pet 3:15; Gspl of Jn 4:16].

World wide hatred towards Chrisitians is rising [Gspl Mt. 10:22, 26-30; Gspl of Lk 1:71; I Pet 4:14].
http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=4

The term 'original forgiveness' cannot be found in the Quran. It has to be constructed from splicing verses and thoughts together. Ironically, this is one of the things Muslims criticize Christians for.

The Tree in Eden is that which offers 'knowledge good and evil' [Gen 2:16,17]. An immediate contradiction is in the Islamic notion that Eden is not on earth, when in fact the Biblical Eden lay east of Canaan near the Tigris and Euphrates rivers [Gen 2:8]. For more on the Islamic concept of Eden, see this exhaustive discussion: http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/P/paradise.html

Also in regards to the Tree in the Garden of Eden the writers of the Quran erred again. It was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil [Gen 2:16,17] which brought shame, sin and death. Adam and Eve were never given the opportunity to eat of the Tree of Life [i.e. immortality], as it was unnecessary to do so until Adam and Eve had gained the Knowledge of Good and Evil [Gen 3:22]. They already had immortality until the Fall.

The Quranic narrative of Adam's fall begins in surah two [Q. 2:35] and only later are we given its attribute [Q. 7:20; 20:120]. There is a great deal of time between these surah being revealed, so it makes us wonder why it took so long for Muhammad to learn about such an important detail in an earth changing event.

Verses to Read and Consider::

Warning to Adam of punishment in the fire [Q. 2:39].
Expulsion from Eden [Gen 3-6; cf. Q. 2:36; 20:115-123]

Adam was fashioned from clay to sit as khalifah on earth [Q. 2:30; 15:26-33].

Angels make obecience to Adam, which disturbs Iblis [Q. 15:30; 38:73].Remember, worshipping a creation is forbidden in Islam, yet that is exactly what Allah is forcing the angels to do. No wonder Iblis rebelled.

Iblis promised Allah that he would cause great distress among the descendents of Adam [Q. 17:62].

Examples of obescience in the Bible [Gen 27:29; 49:8].

The Quran also attributes the same significance to the act of obeisance and uses sajada to describe the adoration of Allah [Q. 3:113].

While a great deal on page flipping and indexing is necessary when reading the Quran, for the Biblical answers, just read chapters 1-6 of the Book of Genesis.

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[Ammyai]

I really hate this doctrine of original sin, from the catholic church. The way most people understand it is totally incorrect.

The consequence of Adam's original sin was the state it put him in, and everyone after him. But that state is Not 'original sin'. It is an 'inherited sinful nature'. Similar, but different.

With 'original sin' people think they are jugded for the sin of Adam. Which is incorrect.

[LothairOfLorraine]

Ammyai: I don't think you have it quite right. With OS, we are inheritors of the stain of sin, which places us under judgment, but in itself is not the cause of it. We sin and die from OS, we are not condemned for it.

Adams jealousy and strife [I Clement 9.4] left us confined to propensity to sin, and in need of redemption. The 'final utterance' of God's wrath is being withheld for those who do not supplicate to His mercy and goodness. Adam will have to answer for his own crimes, not us.

[pez532]

The Lord says in the Quran Surat An-Najm (53:39) And that there is none for man except that good for which he strives.

Meaning that a Muslim does not bear the sins of our father Adam (Peace be upon him) nor anyone else's sins.

Also in Quran Surat Al Qariah (101:6-9)Then as for the one whose scales is heavy (with good deeds),He will be in a pleasant life.But as for one whose scales are light,His refuge will be an abyss.

[freezingstill]

"We sin and die from OS, we are not condemned for it."-it reminds me of an old midrash-at the end of the age all the sons of adam passed before him and cursed him "for your sins we have died"-adam replied "for my sin you have died, for your's you are being judged". Good observation.

[Ammyai]

Jesse, "We sin and die from OS,"

Ok, I now understand your point of view. You believe the normal and natural death we all suffer is because of OS.

You could say so, I guess, although it's actually because God made it so that sinful man should not live forever... after OS had taken place.

I still hate that doctrine because just about everyone misunderstands it.

We should be more concerned about our 'Inherited sinful nature'. That's what really is the downfall of most of us.

[truthspeaker12]

lol a christian rambler who doesnt have a clue on islam or even his own buy-bull

[SGl963]

In the long, disjointed, rambling Muslim 1.380, islam most definitely pastes a concept of original sin:

"What turned ye out from the Paradise was the sin of your father Adam. I am not in a position to do that ..."

Of course, the hadithh also shows Muhammad as the only one "worthy" to usher his cult members into "paradise". But, if that quote above doesn't sound like "original sin", I'm not sure what does.