The Four Horsemen: Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris and Dennett 10/12

"In a June diary piece for his old parish the New Statesman, Christopher Hitchens explored possible monikers for the recent raft of atheist writers. He noted that as a quartet (Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris) they would inevitably attract such hackneyed shorthands as the Gang of Four or the Four Musketeers. Thus, he offered an alternative, the Four Horsemen of the Counter-Apocalypse, now refined into the more succinct Four Horsemen. Shorn of its playful end the title may only further the religious association between atheism and evil, but im just relieved that Hitchens and Harris havent been conscripted into the sickly sweet Brights favoured by Dawkins and Dennett.

It now emerges that the Four Horsemen were recently gathered at Hitchenss Washington apartment, with the two-hour discussion on religion that ensued filmed for our enjoyment. Released on DVD on January 2nd, you can view it all now courtesy of Dawkinss site.

Watching the discussion i was reminded of those collaborative Marvel comic books that crop up occasionally, Spiderman and Superman: United at last!, X-Men and the Fantastic Four join forces! Far more interesting than what the four agree on is what they dont. The differences, between Hitchens and Dawkins on the Iraq war as a secular project, and betwen Harris and the others on the relationship of atheism to Eastern spiritualism, do much to prove that the new atheists are far from a homogeneous block.

The most compelling discussion occurs when Hitchens argues that hed miss religion in a hypothetical atheist world since then the debate would end; hed have no one to refine his arguments against, no one to hone his wit in opposition to, no one to face down in swathes of smoke long after the bulk of audience have retired. It proves once more that an admiration for the dialect is one feature that remains from his Trotskyist days. An incredulous Dawkins is baffled by this stance and at a later stage Hitchens, maintaining hed like to see all the churches empty, concedes its essentially contradictory nature. Which all goes to prove that a meeting of two atheists is still likely to produce three opinions."

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• atheism
• hitchens
• dawkins
• harris
• dennett
• christopher
• richard
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• dan
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• horsemen
• atheist

[paradirob]

Watch Dawkins' interview with Steven Pinker on You Tube. The title of the video is: Steven Pinker - The Genius of Charles Darwin: The Uncut Interviews. Pinker discusses the evolution of language in this video.

[paradirob]

Dawkins often refers to the Catholic Religion when he is criticizing religion in general. Dawkins' real nemesis is the religious right in America. Hitchens mentions that English poetry can inspire a sense of the 'sacred' and contrasts this with radical Muslims' delight in blowing things up, murder, and suicide. It is clear that Dawkins thinks that the Catholic mass is anachronistic nonsense. We can gain an anthropological understanding of what religion is by re-examining its historical contexts.

[WilAwesome11]

and who they are worshipping/placing their faith in. Is that what you were saying? It wasn't entirely clear, to me anyway.

[WilAwesome11]

@paradirob It is a very nice line, 'something like faith'.

I think language does evolve. (Eg. lol rofl brb and other shorthand internet gibberish.) And the difference between modern English and old English (Eg. Shakespeare) is enormous. Dawkins said that he thought that, if read and performed in Latin, the Mass would escape ridicule because few people speak Latin. Whereas in modern English the Mass can be understood by the majority, and thus the majority can make informed decisions on what ...

[paradirob]

Hitchens ends with 'something like faith.'

[paradirob]

Hitchens ends well here. Midway, Dawkins mentions the prospect of separating the irrationality of religious belief from everyday discourse. Dennett brings out this point about 3/4 ways through. 'Group solidarity' is the one social instinct that they are groping at for an explanation. Dawkins follows up with the analogy of a 'disguised insect,' in translation from the old Latin. Surely, then, he is including language as something which evolves, somewhat like the way species evolve.