Part 3 of 10: The Problem of Suffering: the 7 Supernatural Answers vs. the 1 Naturalistic

Overview of entire series:

Part 1: Overview of the supernatural vs. naturalistic explanations for the existence of suffering.

Part 2 discusses explanation #1--that suffering is punishment (from the Western angle that suffering is due to personal sin and/or "original sin").

Part 3 concludes the discussion of explanation #1--that suffering is punishment (from the Eastern angle that suffering is due to due to karma: sins in this life or a previous life).

Part 4 discusses explanation #2--that suffering benefits us--and explanation #3: that suffering must exist for the greater good of Free Will.

Part 5 discusses explanation #4--that the reason for suffering is beyond our finite understanding--and explanation #5: that the perceived world is just an illusion, hence suffering, too, is just an illusion.

Part 6 discusses explanation #6--that the Divine is not All-Powerful. This video focuses on the presentation of this argument as found in Harold S. Kushner's famous book "When Bad Things Happen to Good People."

Part 7 concludes the discussion of explanation #6 (that the Divine is not All-Powerful), and highlights the weaknesses and incoherencies in the philosophy found in "When Bad Things Happen to Good People."

Part 8 discusses explanation #7--that the Divine is not All-Good (includes the views of skeptics, such as Richard Dawkins, who see no trouble reconciling the existence suffering with the fictional character known as the "jealous God" of the Old Testament).

Part 9 concludes the discussion of explanation #7--that the Divine is not All-Good (includes perspective of dualistic and polytheistic religions).

Part 10 discusses explanation #8--that the natural world is indifferent to creature suffering (that it may be part of "nature" for individuals to minimize their own suffering, but there is no overarching supernatural force to either dole out pain or send protection from pain).

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This series is a video adaptation of Endnote 32 from "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer" (a dialogue between a Christian proselytizer and a Socratic skeptic).

For free PDF sample chapters from "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer," see http://www.booklocker.com. (This link will bring you right to the page where you can find the PDF file--just scroll down to #5: http://search.booklocker.com/search-bl.cgi?q=dialogue+with+a+christian+prosel... )

For customer reviews, see http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1601450893/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?_enc...

The text of this video can be found on the blog site "Clashing Culture" - http://clashingculture.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/the-problem-of-suffering-the-...

My four YouTube channels:

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddGates - my musician channel

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates - where I discuss the ideas in my book "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer" (a dialogue between a Christian proselytizer and a Socratic skeptic)

- http://youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates2 - where I discuss the ideas in my book "Hunting, Gathering, & Videogames" (such as "Why do we have to work?" and "Why do we have to use money?" and "How should we define 'success'?")

- http://youtube.com/user/BlasphemyPiano - where I play the background piano accompaniment for songs in Nick Gisburne's book of lyrics "Blasphemy! Anthems for Atheists."

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[Imirror1]

Do You want to become a atheist ? just read the bible.

[ToddAllenGates]

> Do you want to become a atheist ? just read the bible.

It's the skeptic's best defense!

[dragonfighter90]

faces. thank you for listining and please give me a high rating & i'm sorry if I offend but thats my opinion. Thank you & goodday.

[ToddAllenGates]

> sorry if I offend but that's my opinion

No offense taken at all - thanks for taking the time to comment!

[Antichrist4Life]

Forget invisibility. Even assuming that it's true, how 'bout the argument that it's ridiculous that the entire world should suffer because of the sin of two people, who didn't know any better anyway, because they were created innocent, without knowing the difference between right and wrong? The story of the forbidden fruit is not an argument for suffering at all. It's nonsense.

[ToddAllenGates]

> it's ridiculous that the entire world should suffer because of the sin of two people, who didn't know any better anyway . . . It's nonsense.

It's amazing that it EVER carried any weight—and absolutely *stunning* that there are people today who still believe it!

[AbbeyNormal]

Another problem with Karma is that you aren't even aware of what you're being punished for. You're right to call them inherited crimes, since even if past lives were proven true, how can I really justifiably "pay" for the crimes committed by a completely different person in a different lifetime? What lesson does this teach me, and how does this give meaning and justice to the universe?

[8WholeThing]

The problem I see with karma is that if must imply reincarnation because bad people are rewarded and good people suffer. But if it is fair, I should be able to kick somebody who is suffering for past life transgressions and lessen the length of their punishment, so harming someone is a good thing and should be rewarded. If I aid someone who is suffering, I extend their suffering which would be bad. Else, there is no good and bad, so nobody should suffer.

[dragonfighter90]

god and karma and changing them into hateful words, i'd rather live a positive life and be grateful i'm alive at all than listin to some of these people go on about it. believe in Karma & god & unite the religions for the better of ur soul & ur life I think so. Godbless anyone that changes their lives from negitive to positive & live a positive life & don't shove ur religion in ppl's faces. I am Believing in eastern & western Religions conjointly in my own time and won't be shoving it in anyone

[dragonfighter90]

can't ya just believe in karma and god at the same time. to live a good and positive life and prey to god, mary and jesus and not get into crazy religious debates that makes us all like a couple of crazy kooks. No wonder why athesists and many people are giving up religion because theres crazy people hijacking the religious faiths and passing them as an excuse to treat all people who don't believe as sinners who are going to bad bad places. its nonsence frankly that people are taking the words

[pooper189]

Satan is found in the very book Todd references- Job. In Job Chapter one and two it mentions Satan. In Job 1:6-12, Satan is mentioned 7 times. In Job 2:1-7, Satan is mentioned another 7 times. So the Old Testament mentions Satan a minimum of 14 times in this one book. I don't know where you come up with the idea that Satan is a "New Testament" thing.

[ceezmad1]

well satan does not exist in the old testament.

Christians "sampled" the devil from Zaroastrians. You should look into that