Uvic Abortion Debate Oct 21st '09 Part 3 of 10

On October 21st 2009 a debate took place at 3:30pm on the Uvic Campus. The debate featured Philosophy professor Dr. Eike-Henner Kluge, one of Canadas top bioethicists, and Stephanie Gray, executive director of the Canadian Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (CCBR).

Unfortunately, the only recording device I had was an iPhone, and because of my seating position the audio may be hard to hear at times, and I could not capture the slides each presenter used.

Also, at the end of part 2 and beginning of part 3 Gray plays a graphic video, that I didn't capture. It probably wasn't youtube friendly anyway. Even though it's mostly silent during the duration of that clip, I left that part in so we could listen to the few reactions people had.

After a quick google search I found links to the graphic video. It turns out it was two videos put together and shortened for the presentation. Please exercise caution before clicking these links as they are extremely graphic.
Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/yleljue
Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/yl8538a

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Abortion
• Atheist
• uvic
• education
• bioethics
• eike-henner
• kluge
• stephanie
• gray
• pro-life
• pro-choice
• rationality
• reason
• philosophy

[LoveStruckTonight]

@dilemmix

Yes, I am against abortion, even if people are still going to go out and get them illegally. I am also against rape. People are still going to go out and rape other people; doesn't mean rape should be legalized.

[LoveStruckTonight]

@dilemmix PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. Fetus: human being. Murder: unlawful killing of a human being with intent. Abortion is killing a fetus with intent. You want to legalize abortion. Therefore you want to legalize the killing of a human being. Therefore you want to legalize murder. You say murder is always illegal; MY POINT EXACTLY! Abortion is murder therefore it should always be illegal. D'oh!

[phemmonz]

Stephanie gray looks pretty cute in a nerdy way. I'd definitely use a condom if I hooked up with her though.

[Xebioz]

@LoveStruckTonight Your definition of fetus is flawed, because you think that a human fetus is always human. To me it is not and that is where the distinction lies. Your definition of human would probably apply to cancer, so to you cancer is human and therefore cannot be removed as it would be murder. To me a fetus is not alive before it has brain activity as before that it is no more human than a tumor.

[tenorhighc1]

I've seen a lot of abortion debates and one thing I notice now is the audience doesn't like seeing the graphic abortion film, and not because it helps the PL side. The audience sees it as a cheap tactic and an appeal to emotion, it feels like an unfair manipulation. It has worked in past but I really think as a debating tactic it is no longer respected. Notice how this audience gets rowdy upon the film.

[dilemmix]

@Doobrai15 If you look at all the homeless, abused and neglected children that were unwanted pregnancies, you will know that there are worse things than to never have been born!

[dilemmix]

@Doobrai15 Actually, yes the pregnant woman HAS that right, given to her by law.

[dilemmix]

@Doobrai15 Actually it does give women the right, by law. So... if you were the only person that could provide life for another person, even if you didn't want to have anything to do with that other person, would you want to be forced to keep that person alive?

The fetus won't feel a thing. It's not even conscious and has no developed brain and nervous system before week 26 into gestation.

[dilemmix]

@Doobrai15 So why am I wrong? You can't explain why I'm wrong about the autonomy argument. They are NOT autonomous beings, no matter how many times you say that I'm wrong. Explain to us why I'm wrong. Fetuses under 26 or so weeks have no developed brain and nervous system, therefore no consciousness. They don't even know they exist. They are NOT children, they are potential children.

[Ju87s]

@LoveStruckTonight well no, abortion is not murder, since it is not illegal. As of now, it's lawful homicide. We should bring it to the status of murder though.