I intend to spike the gun this morning, or, rather, to turn it on the enemy, for it was never theirs; it was never cast at their foundry at all, but was intended to teach the very opposite doctrine to that which they assert. Usually, when the text is taken, the divisions are: First, that man has a will. Secondly, that he is entirely free. Thirdly, that men must make themselves willing to come to Christ, otherwise they will not be saved. Now, we shall have no such divisions; but we will endeavour to take a more calm look at the text; and not, because there happen to be the words "will," or "will not" in it, run away with the conclusion that it teaches the doctrine of free-will. It has already been proved beyond all controversy that free-will is nonsense. Freedom cannot belong to will any more than ponderability can belong to electricity. They are altogether different things. Free agency we may believe in, but free-will is simply ridiculous. The will is well known by all to be directed by the understanding, to be moved by motives, to be guided by other parts of the soul, and to be a secondary thing. Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will; and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright."...
You have heard a great many Arminian sermons, I dare say; but you never heard an Arminian prayer—for the saints in prayer appear as one in word, and deed and mind. An Arminian on his knees would pray desperately like a Calvinist. He cannot pray about free-will: there is no room for it. Fancy him praying,
"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them."
That is a prayer for the devil, for nobody else would offer such a prayer as that. Ah! when they are preaching and talking very slowly, there may be wrong doctrine; but when they come to pray, the true thing slips out; they cannot help it. If a man talks very slowly, he may speak in a fine manner; but when he comes to talk fast, the old brogue of his country, where he was born, slips out. I ask you again, did you ever meet a Christian man who said, "I came to Christ without the power of the Spirit?" If you ever did meet such a man, you need have no hesitation in saying, "My dear sir, I quite believe it—and I believe you went away again without the power of the Spirit, and that you know nothing about the matter, and are in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity." Do I hear one Christian man saying, "I sought Jesus before he sought me; I went to the Spirit, and the Spirit did not come to me"? No, beloved; we are obliged, each one of us, to put our hands to our hearts and say—
"Grace taught my soul to pray,
And made my eyes to o'erflow;
'Twas grace that kept me to this day,
And will not let me go."
- C.H. Spurgeon
Full text here:
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm
Download the mp3 here:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=7170545810
lanechaplin.blogspot.com
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@PurePower025 I was right there with you.. I wanted to be right about Arminianism. So badly. I hated Calvinism. My first "research" on the subject was reading all the Arminian commentaries I could over Scriptures such as Romans 9, Ephesians 1, John 6, ect. But then I decided that how I live my life mentally (as you like to say) should not be based off of what I want, but what I see in Scripture. In the end, Calvinism won and now it's "a warm blanket for my soul" as Matt Chandler says.
goodintentions002 1 year ago
@goodintentions002
I wikipedia the Freedom of the Will by John Edwards,.... he has interesting theories and ideas....no doubt.
But if I had a choice on how to live my life mentally, (and I do have a choice) then I would mentally wish and do wish to believe I have limited freewill and freedom to choose.
I guess in the end, its a matter of attitude and behavior on how one wishes to live.
PurePower025 1 year ago
@PurePower025 Meanwhile, you can read Freedom of the Will by John Edwards, Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther, and Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin.
goodintentions002 1 year ago
@goodintentions002
then you need to read this book....
The Urantia Book....end of discussion.
PurePower025 1 year ago
@PurePower025 How is it good in front of God with Romans 8:8; 14:23 and 1 Cor 2:14; 10:31?
And you are partly true, because it is referring to where your mind is before verse 8. But verse 5 states that if you are in the flesh, you have the mind set on flesh. And if you have the Spirit, you have the mind set on the Spirit. Therefore to "be in the flesh" in v. 8 isn't constrained to simply "thinking sin"
3rd paragraph is just.. false.
4th paragraph is nonsense; I do not understand it.
goodintentions002 1 year ago
@goodintentions002
Good in the sight of God and others and oneself.
Romans 8:8 refers to a state of mind, thinking fleshly is being in a state of flesh.
Thinking Holy is being in a state of Spirit of God.
One may choose to fly like superman, but does not possess the will to fly like superman. A child may choose to stop getting bullied, but lack the will to actually stop being bullied.
Our Holy Father's Will be done on earth as it is in heaven, Amen. Basically, GOD IS WILL. I chose
PurePower025 1 year ago
@PurePower025
Good in the sight of whom? Others or God?
Then, since coming to God is a pleasing act, how do you explain Rom 8:8?
Explain the difference between free will and free choice. I see them as virtually the same thing. Man once had free will, but at the fall, man's freedom of the will was tainted, and is now, as Luther described it, "the bondage of the will". We now view God as folly apart from an act of God's saving grace.
Logical fallacy. God is all-powerful; I'm not.
goodintentions002 1 year ago
@goodintentions002
Yes we have the choice to do good.
Yes it is pleasing to God when someone comes to faith in Christ.
Well, free will and free choice are not exactly the same thing. God has free will, people like you and me have free choice, I stand on this. Though people do have limited free will, so in essence, people do have free will, even if it is a little bit.
God has free choice, add that to Golden Rule(do unto others as you would have them do unto you) so I have free choice
PurePower025 1 year ago
@PurePower025 First, you claimed that we have the choice to "do good". And I said that unless you are a believer, you cannot do anything "good".
Second, if you agree with what I said then I ask this: when someone comes to faith in Christ, is this a pleasing act to God?
And how do you deduce that inference (that God has free will; therefore everyone does) from Romans 9?
goodintentions002 1 year ago