Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

Ken Miller's talk on Intelligent Design at Case Western University. Ken Miller basically rips Intelligent Design apart in a 2 hour long exposé of the claims of intelligent design and the tactics that creationists employ to get it shoehorned into the American school system.

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[HarshColby]

At least a 100 billion stars in at least a 100 billion galaxies. That's a lot of stars, and plenty of opportunity. I agree. In high school, long, long ago, I did a report on the Drake equation. I got an A.

IDers invent numbers to make their bogus claims sound good. They often exaggerate the odds by pretending evolution is random, or that a complete modern cell is claimed to have been created randomly. It's thoroughly dishonest, but it's all they have.

[Gilmaris]

"Don't bother to say those are lies unless you can provide documentation - not just such & such a site says so. That movie provides much evidence!"

Such as? Where is Expelled's documentation?

[37maletero]

Sorry, I could have warned you. Procommenter is a good example of an organism with a harmful, neurological mutation that can survive in nature. Sure, she may not be able to engage in critical thinking - but she excels at skewing the conversation, misinterpreting facts and making baseless assertions.

And really, isn't that all Creationism is?

[37maletero]

I see our old friend still has plenty of time to Gish gallop, and set up her evolution straw man so she can feel good about knocking it down.

[LoricaLady]

No, my analogy was not a strawman but I'm not going to spend a lot of time teaching you the difference. Someone who thinks that science never claims to have absolute answers about anything needs to learn things at a more rudimentary level. I can just see you going up to an airplane pilot and saying, "Do you think this plane can get into the air okay - and then your reaction if he would say 'Well, I don't know because science doesn't have any absolute answers.'"

[LoricaLady]

I never said "If you can't prove it false, then it must be true." What are you cutting and pasting from? I am saying there is EVIDENCE in the fossil record and in the world of nature, and on farms, that evolution is NOT happening and never did happen.

Give one example of evoltluion and defend it. If you can't do that I have no more time for you - like if you keep changing the subject, switch to Bible bashin (never mentioned it), say Read that site or watch that vid, etc. Answer the Qs.

[LoricaLady]

Give data to show how "DNA absolutely confirms" evolution. You'll evade that, too, probably. And it doesn't. Once again they use the Correlation Does Not Imply Causation logical fallacy (their fave of many logical fallacies) and say that because there is some similarity it means there is descent. Then they ignore all those cows that stay cows,finches that stay finches,fish that stay fish, bacteria that stay bacteria, in real life and in the fossil record.

[LoricaLady]

"Similar" means they are using the Correlation Does Not Imply Causationi logical fallacy. Dolphins-fish, birds-bats-bees, worms-snakes & many other kinds of animals have "similar homology" and "characteristics of". That doesn't prove one came from the other. Animal husbandry DISIPROVES evolution. Animals change alright. ALWAYS within LIMITS.. Cows stay cows. Horses stay horses. Just like in the wild - fish stay fish though there are countless changes & varieties & species.

[LoricaLady]

Yes, children do hear about evolution in school at the elementary level. For example there are books in their libraires talking about the anti scientific primal pond theory as an intro to evolution. You say "Evoltuion has yielded resutls in medicine and technology..." Give me one example. You will never do that. You will probably try to change the subject or ignore the Qs. Don't do that. Answer the Qs with real data.

[LoricaLady]

You are mistaken. Science does claim to have certain knowledge on many things. Yes there are theories, but there are also LAWS of science.. Airplanes, computers, medical discoveries, etc. etc. etc. are built on them. You assume the sun will come up tomorrow. You speed through traffic counting on laws of gravity and physics and much else to be the same every day.