The MSS - 29 April 2012 - Part 4 - Keeping creationism off the curriculum.

Part 1
Stop the world! I want to get off.
http://youtu.be/U3bJL5kusuU

Part 2
Nothingness, word games and William Lane Craig
http://youtu.be/_jXIgAGeE_k

Part 3
Evolution = variation
http://youtu.be/HpRd8Mjs1rg

Part 4
Keeping Creationism off the curriculum.
http://youtu.be/IF95d6wWsq0

Part 5
Talking to theists.
http://youtu.be/DyF_qH9eWvQ

Part 6
I am right you because I say I am.
http://youtu.be/3SR5pFGWjwo

Part 7
Laws and theories.
http://youtu.be/7vJvu_b8w-w

Part 8
Atheism is a faith based rekigion.
http://youtu.be/_KntlH2KlsU


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  Education

[IamAnthonological]

Not exactly, Microevolution was a term invented by creationists (if I remember correctly) and has since been used by actual biologists to define variation within a species (and that's it). When evolution leaves or splits species in two it has officially become Macroevolution.

This has been observed many times and the most common way it happens is known as ring species phenomena. I'm happy to explain how it works if you wish.

[IamAnthonological]

Well no, James Randi's job is to debunk these people for a living and no-one has ever made it past the preliminary exam for proving magic or psychic abilities: Demonstrating it under controlled conditions and supervision.

[watergaia]

only microevolution (variation) is true, and useful, but macroevolution is not useful for anything.

[watergaia]

there is some scientific evidence for magic, like experiments with people being able to influence random number generators with their mind. inventors like john keely have also used mind power (ie. 'magic') to operate his machines.

[IamAnthonological]

cont...

To make Creationism a theory we'd need proof that a Designer/God exists/existed, had a mechanism for creating new organisms and we'd need a viable practical use for knowing how creation works.

Evolution helps with: Curing Disease, Cultivating Plants, Breeding Animals, Ribotyping and Phylogenetic Analysis. And of course, proving there is a point in Genetics after all.

Creation helps with: Applying Science to the bible?

Good point, but we don't claim to know anything for sure back too far.

[IamAnthonological]

No real magic has ever been used, even if magic exists, it is not valuable to the scientific method because no-one can no for sure and prove that magic is/was a real thing. Evolution and all other Science is based on the assumption that these things aren't happening because of Magic but because the world just is that way/somebody irrelevant made it all that way.

cont...

[watergaia]

well, to deny magic is like denying part of history, because if you study history, magic was common place thousands, or even just hundreds of years ago. things (like ghosts and UFOs) sometimes also come from spiritual worlds, so lifeforms probably came from there too.

the problem with evolution is that it extrapolates things back millions of years, so the likelihood for error increases dramatically. the big bang theory and plate tectonics has the same problem.

[IamAnthonological]

We don't say that at all (or we shouldn't), we say the fact that alleles change over time is the best explanation for the diversity of life, considering the geologic timescale and mechanics of evolution. There is no opposing theory which uses methodological naturalism instead of proposing magic.

When we are talking about millions of years I don't see how allele frequency change can't change the entire phenotype of an animal. The problem is you don't understand it and therefore can't believe it.

[watergaia]

if you define evolution just as "allele frequency over successive generations", then obviously its true, but the problem is that the theory also claims other things which there is no evidence for, like unicellular creatures evolving to all phyla that we see through a neodarwinian process

evolutionists of course don't like to talk about that, because there is no evidence for it, so they always just say "evolution is change in species over time" or something like that, which nobody can argue with

[IamAnthonological]

Evolution is change in allele frequency over successive generations. There is overwhelming genetic evidence for this.

The theory of evolution uses this simple fact to account for the gradual change of organisms across the fossil record and the relation between the genes of animals around today. We have rather convincing evidence for this fact. But it's not evolution, it's the history of life subjected to evolution.

By Occam's Razor and the evidence we have, evolution is true.