Part 5 -- DID the disciples die for a lie?

This is part five of a series examining an argument many Christians regard as among the most convincing proofs that Jesus was raised from the dead, namely, that Jesus' disciples willingly died as martyrs for preaching that Jesus had been raised from the dead. No one, it is claimed, would willingly die for a lie. In this series, the argument is examined and three refutations of it are offered.

Links:

Christian apologist Josh McDowell setting forth the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0rhST6Q_gE

Christian apologist Lee Strobel setting forth the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIfhy0ug7kM

Dr. Lorne L. Dawson's "When Prophecy Fails and Faith Persists: A Theoretical Overview"—

http://caliber.ucpress.net/doi/pdf/10.1525/nr.1999.3.1.60

PART 6:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hngtGD_NIuM

Category:

Education

Tags:

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• resurrection
• apostles
• die
• lie
• empty
• tomb
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• killed
• persecution
• Paul
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[archiethomas1000]

In this seris it speaks of turning defeat into victory.The Bible iiself speaks of guarding the body so the second deception isn't greater than the first as it waws put. I remember a joe citizec saying they didn't want this man's death to go to waste as he put it. So this is nothing novel or new. Believers could come up with counter thoughts. Folks accept by faith or not.

[Drgamedood]

@Strangerinasland He accepts common descent, but not the Darwinian mechanism that drives evolution.

[Strangerinasland]

@Drgamedood "lol, wut? Evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive. And behe supports intelligent design, not evolution"

A simple Google search quickly showed me that Michael Behe supports ID & evolution.

[Strangerinasland]

@Yahweigh Is that UFO lingo? 

[Yahweigh]

@Strangerinasland derp

[Strangerinasland]

@Yahweigh How do you know how many UFOs Jesus saw? 

[71jav]

I thought that the seven headed dragon represents the seven churches. I think all of the churches would abuse, hurt, and take advantage of an apostle and whore them for money. I don't think that the church is a part of God. So yes, they died for nothing because the churches abuse apostles and misuse them for the church lies.

[Yahweigh]

More ppl have seen alien ufos than jesus...

[myerssa7]

Thanks for your efforts. I agree with the main thrust of your argument, but it would be strengthened if you had negative controls for Paul's use of the word 'optanomai'. It does seem that within Paul's 7 undisputed letters, he uses the verb strictly to reference appearances of supernatural visions. Paul doesn't seem to use other verbs for 'to appear' like phantazo or epiphaino. He uses 'phaino' but not in reference to visions. Do you know of other verbs for "appear" that he uses conventionally?

[WorstmetJus91]

@Drgamedood No he believes, for example, that we have a common ancestor with the apes. He generally believes in evolution but he doesn't believe certain parts of particulair animals could have arosen by natural selection and random mutation.

So basically, he believes that God sometimes had to intervene (push evolution in the right direction). Personally, I think that makes God's creation look imperfect.