War of 1812

Bethlehem Public Library teen film fest 2008

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Education

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• 1812

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit It's late, I'm tried so lets reach an accord if we can. Can we agree to this:

1 - the US won most of the naval battles and were successfull in privateering against British merchants

2 - the British dominated American waters and were successfull in privateering against American marchants

3 - the Royal Navy never dedicated its real strenght against the Americans

4 - neither side can won the war either on land or sea as both failed to achieve all of their aims

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit However the point of neutralization is important. Without neutralization then complete victory over a forces cannot be claimed - victories in engagements certainly but not total victory - and as the Royal Navy's small contingent was still active at the war's end and still pretty much controling American waters they were not neutralized in anyway.

The US Navy of 1812 should, therefore, be rated with the Confederates of achievING some success in the field but none of it lasting.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit Again you've missed the point. I'm not denying that the small contingent the Royal Navy sent to America tried to gain control over the Great Lakes and failed, what I am saying is that if it were that much of a priority to the Royal Navy they could have taken them at any time just by sending one of its 1st rate Ships of the Line across the Atlantic. The St Lawrence proved the US weren't prepared to sail against a 1st rate Ship of the line let alone challenge one.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit For pity sake man! The pricipals the same. Modern day equivilents have not baring on their historical counterparts. The US having a powerful navy now means nothing as far as 1812 goes.

Claiming victory over the Royal Navy for defeating a force it only sent to keep the US Navy occupied is shallow. It would be far more accurate to say that the US achieved some victories over only the very small contingent the Royal Navy deemed worthy of sending against it but failed to neutralize it

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit Look. Certainly the Americans were successful on the Great Lakes but their success only led to the creation of the St Lawrence and American impotance. Britain could have retaken the Great Lakes whenever it wanted to.

Its a matter of intent.

If the Royal Navy had truely been intent on breaking the US Navy then there wouldn't have been a force on heaven or earth that could have prevented it from doing so but it never had that intent.

Your mistaking disinterest for incompetance.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit What ?! The US Navy of 1812 was great because its great today? You cannot judge a navy from hundreds of years ago by its modern day force, that's ludicrous.

If the War of 1812 proved anything from a naval perspective it was that the Royal Navy was so powerful it didn't need to take other navies seriously to achieve what it wanted.

The US Navy might have proven itself to be an effective small navy but it also proved its unworthy of the Royal Navy's attention.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit But the fact is that the US Navy didn't control their own waters when the war ended and had failed completely to deal with even the small ships the Royal Navy assigned to deal with them - the US won a few battles but didn't neutralize the Royal Navy's presence - and as such the Royal Navy was right not to take the US as a serious threat. If the US Navy couldn't neutralize a force made of small brigs, sloops and frigates then they weren't worthy of even seeing the ships of the line.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit That the Royal Navy didn't take the American navy seriously and didn't think it eough of a threat to divert any of its most powerful ships to oppose them - even the St Lawrence was built in North American not sent there - doesn't mean the US were better.

Sure the US may have gained from conducting the naval war against the Royal Navy - both experiance and money - but they still failed to make a lasting impression on it.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit The point, however, was that the US cannot claim to have won the naval war when they couldn't even effectively defeat a Royal Navy that wasn't even paying attention to them, that didn't even try to beat them, because not only did they fail to gain control of American Waters and repulse the British but they also failed to make themselves be taken seriously. Claiming victory in such circumstances would be a hollow - even laughable - afair.

[11nytram11]

@MegaTheBrit Well its great that the US gained greater strenght at sea through its War of 1812 endeavors but that has nothing to do with the US Navies inferiority to the Royal Navy in the 1800's. The fact that the US Navy survived the War of 1812 is more down to the Royal Navy's preocupation with Napoleon than the US Navy's effectiveness and just becuase the Victory, Royal Sovereign and St Lawrence weren't united against them doesn't mean they couldn't have crushed the US Navy if they had been.