Panel Discussion on Morality at Beyond Belief 2008 Part 3

Another thought provoking talk at Beyond Belief: Candles in the dark.
Panel: This is Your Brain on Morality

With Jonathan Haidt, Sam Harris, Jonathan Glover, Marco Iacoboni, and Patricia Churchland
Moderated by Roger Bingham

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/beyond-belief-candles-in-the-dark

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[ShalloeThought]

I heard Denmark is being taken over by Muslims taking advantage of their liberal Atheist freedoms and might soon be more Muslim than Aetheist...A little to much freedom perhaps. Evolved in a friendly pacifist enviroment they are ripe for the picking by people followin a Violent, Opressive, Religeon .. But they might deserve it if theyre still into slaughtering dolphins.. But I doubt their Mullahs would put a stop to that..

[riversonthemoon]

Sounds very disturbing. I always thought that in the free exchange of ideas, atheism would win out, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps we can't assume that people are naturally reasonable. False promises of transcendence after death are powerful, not to mention the exclusivity and specialness promised by religion.

[autobotftwww]

@autobotftwww ..our differences. If you destroy your own ideals, the inertia of which is driving western society right now, you will only let yourself be taken over by a stronger force. This won't happen militarily. You will be outbred, your children will grow into narcissistis who have no meaning in life other than self-interest, your institutions will weaken. Rekindle your traditions, find the value in them. They are not just inventions, even if they are couched in mythology.

[autobotftwww]

@riversonthemoon What you believe to be reasonable is only your conception of it. Realistically speaking, organization and strict hierarchy are the only ways by which our systems, our societies evolve. Haidt's work is key to providing proof of this, even though it is simple ancient wisdom. The Enlightenment ideals thought of as "reasonable" or "free thinking" can't be such if they aren't even shared by the majority of humanity, or if the strength of our groups relies on (cont..)

[KenMacMillan]

@niinja2 The Arabic term used for the various traditional Muslim biographies of Muhammad is Sīrah Rasūl Allāh. They're where most of the information on Muhammad's life comes from. Besides for Raymond Ibrahim, check out Robert Spencer.

[niinja2]

@KenMacMillan

il check it out, but im still very sceptical about this theory , OT jews fought wars against pagan nations, nevertheless ,none of the christians take these passages as litteraly justification for wars, but as a strugle against sin.

[KenMacMillan]

@niinja2 When you get the time check out this debate, it's 7 parts but very informative. watch?v=jEFMajMFCVU

[KenMacMillan]

Qur'an 033.021

YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

PICKTHAL: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

SHAKIR: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

[KenMacMillan]

Muhammad himself fought in nine engagements:

Badr; Uhud; al-Khandaq; Qurayza; al-Mustaliq; Khaybar; the occupation; Hunayn; and al-Ta'if.

.

Note that only one was defensive, the rest were offensive raids & the deliberate conquering of land.

.

Three translations that explain how Muslims are supposed to hold themselves to the standard of Muhammad...

[KenMacMillan]

Bahran, a mine in the Hijaz Uhud Hamra'u'1-Asad Banu Nadir Dhatu'l-Riqa'ofNakhl The last battle of Badr Dumatu'l-Jandal Al-Khandaq Banul Qurayza Banu Lihyan of Hudhayl Dhu Qarad Banu'l-Mustaliq of Khuza'a Al-Hudaybiya (not intending to fight, the polytheists opposed his passage) Khaybar Then he went on the accomplished pilgrimage, the occupation of Mecca. Hunayn Al-Ta'if Tabuk

[KenMacMillan]

@niinja2 The historian Ibn Ishaq says in the Sīrah Rasūl Allāh (Life of the Messenger of God) that Muhammad participated in twenty-seven battles: Waddan, which was the raid of al-Abwa Buwat in the direction of Radwa Ushayra in the valley of Yanbu The first fight at Badr (in pursuit of Kurz b. Jabir) The great battle of Badr in which God slew the chiefs of Quraysh Banu Sulaym until he reached al-Kudr Al-Sawiq in pursuit of Abu Sufyan b Harb Ghatafan, which is the raid of Dhu Amarr

[niinja2]

@KenMacMillan

"The man was a warlord who conquered Arabia through war, murder, and rape. All muslim men are required by the religion to keep him as the highest standard"

to understand suicide bombers you need to know something about them , not make stuff up

"Radical jihadist are the ones practicing the religion the way it is designed"

and you know this because ? and this is true despite most of muslims say this is false?