Near Death Experiences & Atheism part 4 of 5 apologetics

Near Death experiencer Howard Storms talks with the Friendly Atheist blogger about the reality of NDEs on Things That Matter Most Radio .

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• near
• death
• experiences
• NDE
• howard
• storm
• hell
• hellish
• heaven
• apologetics
• atheism
• friendly
• atheist
• out
• of
• body
• afterlife
• life
• Luke
• 16
• after
• raymond
• moody
• A.J.
• Ayer
• Naturalism
• Materialism
• J.P.
• Moreland
• william
• Lane
• craig
• greg
• Koukl
• Paul
• Copan
• Norman
• Geisler
• Hugh
• ross
• Alvin
• Plantinga
• Susan
• blackmore
• peter
• kreeft
• gary
• habermas
• lee
• strobel
• IANDS
• secularism
• dembski
• Lewis
• dinesh
• d'souza
• hasker
• Ken
• ring
• michael
• sabom
• melvin
• morse
• scientism
• bruce
• greyson
• atwater
• Love
• UFO

[grandconjunct]

MetaphysicsAddict >>"Nobody stays in "hell" forever.

grand>>Yes I have read both of them but there work will not support your mistaken idea that "Nobody stays in Hell forever" Fontanas book has story of in Platos Republic who says many will be in a sort of purgatorial Hell for a limited time, others will be there forever, So its ironic that you are recommending a work to me that undermines you !

I am a Christian we are forbidden to talk to mediums or dead Deut 18:11 , nothing but confusion!

[Prophetes]

In my studies I've been seeing the Bible does in fact teach annihilation. Then i come across this video and supposedly Jesus or the angels said the lake of fire represents annihilation. If you read revelation death and Hades are thrown in the lake of fire and if the bible teaches anything it's that death will be destroyed.

[grandconjunct]

In my study of Biblical and NDE data, Annihilation seems possible for some but Gods greatest enemies Clearly will spend eternity in Hell forever , REV 14:10-11, and some NDErs are told to return to earth or they will spend eternity in Hell. In platos republic the oldest NDE ever recorded Er sees people coming up from hell after "thousands" of years of torture and they say some will never come out of Hell. so the best explanation for all the data is limited form of annihlationism not full.

[vrealrad]

what do you mean that eventuallt god will let everyone out of hell? i personally think god would neva have let hell been created? i think we make out own personnel hell!

[grandconjunct]

Vrealrad>>what do you mean that eventually god will let everyone out of hell? i personally think god would never have let hell been created? we make out own personnel hell

grand>> who said god would eventually let everyone out of Hell ? your imagining incoherent things mr. vreal , If i got to heaven and found out Stalin and Mao went there, I could not respect God and would ask to be cast out of heaven, Your Hell free "god" is a monster, besides for being wrong biblically and by NDE data.

[squattinghorsey]

Atheists totally misunderstand what Religion is about. They say it is like looking for the dwarfs at the bottom of the garden...give me some evidence and then they will believe.

They do not realise that religion, Jesus or whoever works through the heart, and its medium is the human soul, not the external physical world.

Furthermore, it is the effects of religion..the hope, the peace, the great changes it can have on people..why take that away unless you have anger and hate in your heart?

[grandconjunct]

I agree with Plato who said "Atheism is a disease of the soul before it becomes an error of the mind."

[killforce787878]

Emmit is trying to convince Howard that his story is not real. I heard Howards story and sumthing about it just rings so true.....He was a an Atheist!!! U lost a brother to GOD EMMMIT!!!!!! When u gonna wake up emmitt?

[OperaBaritoneJoe]

I am a Christian; but even I think that Atheist is to stupid to be backing his point.

[TheKorban]

Howard spoke of a second chance after death!

That Is what the Catholic Church has always taught,and we believe the scriptures are clear enough in their meaning

No one according to scripture can enter heaven in sin,

God is not a monster he loves us and cleanses us so we can enter.

Mercy is the key and God is Mercy.

Jesus is the way and the truth, he speaks through his church and it is vocal enough, Purgatory is a second chance.

We can pray for mercy for our dead.

God be with you

[amzuel420]

"We can do our part for these souls by praying for them as they are still members of the Body of Christ.

Does Howard mention this anytime?"

Another thing you may want to keep in mind is that Howard was not a Catholic and did not become one. Nor did he have anyone praying for him to be released from "purgatory". I find it odd that you would use that as an example supporting the idea of purgatory because I think Howard is saying the opposite....that you only need Christ and no one else.

[amzuel420]

I was just reading some older comments and this one looks to be about 6 months ago. The one thing that puzzles me about the skeptic's arguments is that they never attempt to explain incidents like the blind woman. She described suddenly having sight exactly as a person born blind would describe it. She said she was terrified at 1st. Then she accurately described events going on in other parts of the hospital. The time of those events were verified and at the time she was dead on a table....???

[TheKorban]

What Howard is expressing about a second chance is what Catholics for centuries have called Purgatory.

And there are passages to suggest such a place , but a whole lot of Mystics all say Purgatory is real as told by Jesus Mary and the Angels.

God is Mercy and Love if I'm commanded to forgive and love my Enemy how much more will God forgive.

We can do our part for these souls by praying for them as they are still members of the Body of Christ.

Does Howard mention this anytime?

[k0smon]

doanle 7: You won't know anything more about God after you die than you do now. He is everywhere present, and not in the shape of a man or anything else, therefor you will never 'see' Him. He really doesn't care whether you believe in Him or not.

[k0smon]

vrealrad: The afterlife is about justice. You will end up in a condition where those around you are like yourself, you get what you deserve. You do make your own hell, in the sense that you will inherit what you deserve.

[k0smon]

grand: Have you ever thought that the reason the bible does not want you look into the psychic realm is that you might find the bible to be wrong. See "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman. I prefer information that is contemporary, not from a book for which we have no original documents. Yes, I am a former Christian.

[MetaphysicsAddict]

Please cite the example from Plato's Republic. Are you talking about the Myth of Er? Either way, what I actually said is that NDEs and mediums *generally* support the idea of a purifying hell that cleanses people (often, though not always, by having people experience the pain that they caused others). This is what Atwater and Fontana (and others) have shown to be very common. I don't think the myth of Er in Plato's Republic gives us any reason for thinking that eternal damnation is true.

[MetaphysicsAddict]

I have no problem with that account, though I need to look into it further. What I claimed is that NDEs and mediums *generally* indicate that hell is not eternal and that eventually people come out. So I'm not sure why you cited an example of somebody coming *out* of hell... either waym best wishes to you.

[MetaphysicsAddict]

with respect to you, I think it would be pointless to talk about mediums with you given that we have such drastically different views. But either way, even the NDE research *tends* to support what I'm saying. Atwater's book "Idiot's Guide to NDEs" certainly does. I'm sure you're also familiar with the near death web site, which has a lot of information on hell in NDEs. Anyway, I don't have the same bias against mediums and I don't quote Deuteronomy as evidence that all mediums are confused. peac