Ask a Theist: Bossom103, Stigmadeign! (Lying for Jews)

It was also Thunderbolt94! Bah for the life of me I couldn't remember. I fail.

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• Stigmadeign
• ahlifalanashoba
• ask
• theist
• jesus
• jews
• holocaust
• hitler
• Adolf Hitler
• The Holocaust
• bossman103
• thunderbolt94

[Al1981X]

Don't you mean 'Bossman103' ? Also why do you swear at people in every video now ? Nothing wrong with it AFAIC, just saying...

ps; Welcome back, Al :p

[losoyo]

@Al1981X Silly brit

[thornisdan]

You kind of getting at the spirit of the law vs the letter of law debate here.

[losoyo]

@thornisdan I agree. It's a bunk question.. Which is why I asked it in this segment versus a serious one ;)

[TheNakedAtheist]

I'm still hoping for an answer to my question.

[matbroomfield]

@jakiedark Of course lying is bad in general. You distort another person's perception of truth for your own gain or the gain of others, and put the deceived person at a disadvantage.

It's not an ambiguous act like sex for instance, where there is no victim. Somebody always comes off worse, and it's only your own value judgement that determines if that is acceptable.

However, there are many situations when lying is absolutely the right thing to do.

[matbroomfield]

Your question is a superb one, because it reveals the entire reason why christian morality is so very flawed. Of course every sane person knows that the answer is you lie your butt of to save the family, but because you have this absolute morality, christians get all tied in knots about whether telling a lie is a greater sin than enabling by your action, the death of another person. And what about when your only choice is to break one commandment or the other - is there a hierarchy of badness?

[Shadowlooker12]

The only exception to certain rules would be accidental killing, possibly self defense (which I still wouldn't dare say is completely ok) and capital punishment (Death penalty) of a very extreme criminal. Simply put, if you're a Christian and you feel you may offend God or have, meditate on it, search and ask. Shouldn't assume you haven't and just keep living it up, this of course is on context with the given scenario when someone is really unsure of if the decision is right or wrong.

[Shadowlooker12]

In reality, what I myself would do is lie, because I couldn't just feed these individuals to the fire. I couldn't give up peoples families, children elderly etc etc BUT on the flip side I'd still ask for forgiveness for that lie. I by no means am excusing the lie, people in today's world view things very different due to influence and "modern" thought. To me the definition never changes, a lie is a lie and murder is murder despite circumstance.

[Shadowlooker12]

God knows why you would lie, God does not condone the lie but would udnerstand why you did it. it's pretty much that simple. Things are tolerated by God but not accepted. An example of this is how some individuals in Old testament time had more than one wife but still were with God, it was tolerated because of the state of humanity in sin, but it is not condoned. Also, certain aspects go along with the nature of man, mainly how the world is at the time a command is given.

[Shadowlooker12]

.....I can understand what you're getting at, but this has been pushed to a degree of extreme measure to pull off,but there are less extreme situations that could have been used. Anyway, The bible and lying really has no inconstancy with said question. The bible is clear cut, No lying. If you lie to help these people so be it, you still lied. IF you actually read the bible, you should (but most don't) understand God is dealing with a broken world. As such God knows the situation--->

[jakiedark]

first welcome back, second, your question. alright, I'm not a theist, still going to answer, you can't stop me :P

My opinion is about the same as rationalroundtable. Lying is not bad in general, but what determines if its bad or good are the consequences. In your case, the consequences of lying is living another day for your and the Jewish family. so good.

also, i think if you tell the truth, and you die and go to heaven, Jesus is going to say your a nice guy, but also kind of a idiot.

[TheNakedAtheist]

@losoyo

I'd be curious to hear your take on the "thou shall not murder" commandment. Since as I said murder is by definition "unlawful killing", would Hitler killing the Jews break the commandment assuming that it wasn't considered illegal to do so in Germany at the time? Without God specifically defining when it is, or isn't lawful to kill, isn't the commandment meaningless?