Craig and Williams vs. Copson and Ahmed: This House Believes That God is Not a Delusion

A debate between William Lane Craig and Peter S. Williams (affirmative) and Arif Ahmed and Andrew Copson (negative) at the Cambridge Union Society, England on October 20, 2011 about whether God is (not) a delusion.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• God
• William Lane Craig
• Peter S. Williams
• Arif Ahmed
• Andrew Copson

[SanEverett]

Craig is thorough

[RFunofficial]

@Tibberclaw Well, I'd encourage you to keep seeking God. It's not as if he minds you making "demanding" requests, provided your motives are right! ;-)

I have faith in my friends because I have experienced their love, trustworthiness, and reliability and trusting them seems to be a logical response. Similarly, I have faith in God because I've experienced his goodness and trusting him seems to be the most logical response. So I guess I think logic and faith are connected.

[RFunofficial]

@Tibberclaw Rather than giving some sort of cheap response, I'll write something up on my blog and send you a link.

[Tibberclaw]

@RFunofficial By 'pyrotechnics' you mean something verifiable? If so, then I don't understand how an honest person can go about this without expecting a pyrotechnical response...

[Tibberclaw]

@RFunofficial I was raised in a religious family, but I wouldn't say I ever "deconverted" because I never developed a conviction of any of it being true at first. I've had suspicions about the intellectual merits of belief as long as I can remember, even as a younger kid around 8-14. I tried praying many times and only ever with real intent and sincerity. I made my requests as undemanding as possible: You don't need to prove your existence, just show me how to approach the issue. Logic or faith?

[RFunofficial]

When you have some time, check out some of Paul Moser's work (e.g. Google "Agapeic Theism: Personifying Evidence and Moral Struggle" or "The Elusive God").

[Tibberclaw]

@RFunofficial I'm glad that you express the willingness to change your beliefs if logic/evidence demands it. You've earned some respect from me.

[RFunofficial]

@Tibberclaw Okay. Why don't you establish scientific studies to establish the efficacy of requests made to your friends, your family, your parents, and other people in general? I think your position on such matters may be a bit inconsistent.

Are you open to the idea of God's reality? Do you earnestly seek God in prayer and repentance? So often I find that sceptics ask for divine pyrotechnics and aren't open to God in his terms.

[Tibberclaw]

@RFunofficial How else can he expect people to believe it works? Otherwise your belief could very easily be based on confirmation bias, and there is good reason to fear this. Why else would people of various religious backgrounds engage in prayer and come out of the experience believing God told them mutually exclusive truths that conveniently affirm their presuppositions? Obviously they aren't all right, and at the least, most are led by confirmation bias. Why think yourself special?

[RFunofficial]

@Tibberclaw Well, that's a bit unfair, isn't it? ;-) As a Christian theist, I don't know of any beliefs of mine that are "uncomfortably inconsistent with reality"; if you or I knew we had such beliefs, we'd change them, surely? (Well, maybe not. We humans are pretty stubborn. But I remain hopeful.)

But back to the question you asked a bit earlier... Do you think that God would answer prayers offered to him simply for the sake of testing whether or not God answers prayers?