How could Adam sin if he was perfect?

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[granjitsingh]

1 Pelagian disliked this video

[fivepointbaptist]

@granjitsingh When you're right, you're right; and I know you're right!

[RedLetterChristian]

OR

God gave his creation free will and he respects the decisions that his creatures make b/c if he didn't then we are back to being robots

and by choosing one to go to heaven he is by default choosing those to go to hell too.. because we are robots and can only want to do evil all the time everywhere.we have no brain! does this make sense? i hope not. if it does how do you evangelize? god only really loves his chosen few, everyone else he hates, this is islam in action. not good news at all.

[RedLetterChristian]

2 cont...

and the fact that satan and his cohorts are in hell roasting away in the wrath of god does in fact show the totality of his attributes

oh, but there would be no free will and we would all be robots, but we'd be happy love filled mercy filled, grace filled robots=)

if god is (calvinist sovereign) and his will is always accomplished then there should have not been any rebellion ever.

AND he chose for there to be sin in advance making him the originator of all evil everywhere!!!!

[RedLetterChristian]

god gets the greatest glory by god redeeming a person and transforming them into the likeness of jesus...

hence...

god would get the most glory if everyone was transformed in the likeness of jesus

also

hell would still exist because of satan and his followers still exist. no person need go to hell for hell to exist.

2 because determinism and free will go together in a calvinist mindset there is no reason at all that god could not save everyone b/c that would show he is most loving/kind

[RedLetterChristian]

1 evil is going against god's will.

2 god gave people free will, he respects peoples decisions because it is a greater more awsome thing than to not respect peoples decisions and force himself or his will on us making us robots... the creator asks do you love me? the creator pulls the string attached to his creation and a pre recorded voice says 'yes lord i love you' - is this love? no

3 if god gives you something you still have to accept it. if you don't it's not yours b/c you refused it

[polopowers1]

God is immutable He does not need evil for showing mercy or justice God revealed sin to exalt God Nature It was not by difference,God is not opposite of sin or evil.Condemnation does not reveal God neither sinners going to hell,or heaven.Christ is God's Oneness in Nature the Nature to reveal God's Virtue. Only Christ One with God can reveal God's Nature not law or justice or judgment.The Nature of God can only be satisfied by the Nature of God Himself for Justice done and righteousness imputed.

[polopowers1]

God has attribute of the knowledge of evil. Man has knowledge of evil more than evil he does.God is not by knowledge an attribute of evil but by Virtue has knowledge of evil Having knowledge does not make one evil..God created knowledge of good and evil Adam ate equally both; not more evil than good.Satan was a fallen angel of light not evil innately, he took knowledge of evil by exalted power used it upon powerless flesh.Adam never had a spiritual life,all was physical.

[ILLUDICHRIS]

@FillTheirVoid Huh? Independent of it's nature? riiiight..., thats why we are sinners by nature.

So is this a "Red Herring" or just an erroneous fallacy?

You seem to forget you're referring to the God of full foreknowledge who knew exactly what end his creative design would produce, - but He is called love, 1John 4.

So when did Love start rejoicing in the wrong? Creating certain 'beloved' for the pure torture of destruction doesn't qualify one as loving.

"Do unto others..." and all that.

[FillTheirVoid]

@0nedruss

The problem is that your definition of free will entails a dimension of being which acts in an absolutely independent manner from it's nature, mind, affections, circumstances, and God.

God does get what He wants, hence some are saved and others are lost. It was indeed His ultimate will that some individuals would in fact perish, hence satan and the rebellious angels to whom no salvation was even offered.

God saves His elect, His sheep, not the goats.

[pacouli]

@0nedruss

I know, this is just speculation... that's why I said "perhaps".

Clearly, we will never understand these things.

But at the same time we have verses like Rom11.32 " For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." or Rom 9:20-23, so maybe his theory is not so far-fetched.