Philosophy Topic: Psychological Egoism (1)

From the season five episode "The One Where Phoebe Hates PBS". In it the characters debate psychological egoism.

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Psychological egoism is about as dead as a philosophical theory can get. It is a good example of a bit of progress philosophers have made. "Can we act selflessly?" Turns out, the answer is: "Yes." However, arguments like Joey's for psychological egoism (i.e. that we can only act selfishly) often strike non-professionals as convincing. There are a number of fatal flaws philosophers have identified with psychological egoism. Can you tell one of the ways the position Joey is arguing for goes wrong?

Here is one site that covers some of the problems that philosophers have found with psychological egoism well:
http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/egoism.html

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There is an important distinction to keep in mind when watching this video (Joey is defending the first of the two):

Psychological egoism: We cannot act selflessly. Every action is selfish.

Ethical egoism: We can act selflessly, but we shouldn't. We should act selfishly.

Often people mistakenly argue for ethical egoism on the basis of psychological egoism (But Joey isn't in this clip). However, far from supporting one another, they cannot both be true. If psychological egoism is true and one cannot avoid acting selfishly, then ethical egoism cannot say we should act selfishly. After all, that would entail that we *could* act selflessly, only that we shouldn't.

Consequently, the fact that psychological egoism is false does not mean that ethical egoism is as well. In fact, if psychological egoism wasn't false, then ethical egoism would have to be.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Philosophy
• Egoism
• Psychology
• Ethics
• Morality
• Morals
• Selfish
• Selfishness
• Altruism
• Selfless
• Ayn Rand
• Psychological Egoism
• Ethical Egoism

[Wittgenquine]

@CHRLPTRSN You, sir, win the internets.

[rumbal]

But it´s also a question of language which can never be wrong or right, because words have self-imposed meanings that later become impositions of meaning on others. So please have security, if you are insecure, find out why and be secure. Since that is the only way of living rightly., live it

[Wittgenquine]

@rumbal You over estimate the degree to which language is at our whim. I can start using the word "selfless" to refer to the color red "acts" to refer to balls, and then truly say "Selfless acts exist" but that wouldn't mean that psychological egoism is false. I will have changed the meaning of the words such that they aren't even about the same thing PE means when it claims "Selfless acts don't exist".

[rumbal]

It´s obviusly imposibble for everyone to live a selfish life. It´s like the man in the middle east with the riffle pretending to make a living out of making wars with others when in that war he threatens his own security since there is no infallible killing device.. He can always be killed, so in that way, peace is the only valid way of living a secure life. And obviusly without security there is no life, unless you call an insecure life a life, which would seem quite absurd

[Wittgenquine]

@rumbal Then you reject psychological egoism which claims that every action is done from one's own wants and so constitutes a selfish act. If that is what selfishness consisted in, then I'd agree that it's impossible for anyone not to live a selfish life. You always act out of your wants/motivations. Clearly, then, you disagree with the psychological egoist about what "selfishness" is, since you say it is "obviously" impossible to always be selfish.

[rumbal]

I´m glad you all replied and kept the topic alive., Selfishness and self-motivated actions are COMPLETELY different things, since you can be very altruistic and do very noble actions based on your noble and altruistic tendencies or motivations and, at least from my language interpretation which can never be wrong or right, to say my altruistic and noble self-generated actions are SELFISH seems quite incorrect. Then there is the topic of how can i depurate some actios into ego or non-ego

[Wittgenquine]

@rumbal I agree, except for your claim that language can't be right or wrong. I can't prove to you that "cars can fly" simply by deciding to mean "planes" by the word "cars". So the psychological egoist can't prove that "Every action is selfish" simply by deciding that "selfish" means self-motivated action rather than a self-directed motivation. There is a way in which language depends on how we decided to use it, but it seems to be more complicated than the "free for all" you imply it to be.

[cap269]

If all actions are selfish, and there are no non-selfish actions, then the point itself is moot, as there is no alternative and label is meaningless. This of course is an error in logic, and thus makes psychological egoism a fallacy. Psychological egoism states that because we "want" to perform an action that appears selfless, we are in actuality acting selfishly by satisfying this want (referring to the strategy of redefining motives).

[Redflowers9]

every action is selfish so we're all selfish.. and by that I mean it's in the intention of a self benefit not the typical understanding which is that we are all horrible people.

[giuffre714]

@CHRLPTRSN For the people that would say it was neither good nor bad, I would say it was still selfless. As far as the subconscious goes, I don't think it plays a part in a gag reflex or a knee jerk. 

[CHRLPTRSN]

I used to be an altruist. Then I took an arrow in the knee.

[CHRLPTRSN]

@giuffre714 An involuntary reflex is caused by the subconscious, which does it best to further your interests.

Additionally, if an act is involuntary, there are many who would say it could be neither good or bad, as free will was not involved.

[jgtheone1]

FVSU!!!

[Sadnessinger]

"That's because all people are selfish."

"Are you callin' me selfish?"

"Are you callin' you people?"

XDXDXD

[giuffre714]

What about an involuntary reflex? That's a selfless act.

[giuffre714]

If your only "desire" or "self interest" is to see others happy, then being selfish is a good thing.