Greg Koukl - Dawkins' Contradiction

Taken from our blog, Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason discusses an argument offered in Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion". For more information, visit http://www.str.org.

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[rossini55]

@mollkatless Anyway you are shifting the burden of proof. Theists make the extraordinary claim that a god exists, and we reject those claims as unsupported by any evidence and therefore unproven. It is not for skeptics to disprove it, it is for you to prove it.

ie I have an invisible magic dragon in my garage that controls the weather, do you believe me? No? Well you cant prove I dont have one. And what about all this weather we have been having recently?

[rossini55]

@mollkatless "What type of evidence are you seeking?"

Dunno, what have you got?!

I am sure an all powerful god would know what it would take to convince me. A new planet appearing instantly. A man appearing from clay and a woman from his rib, or animals appearing out of thin air would be a start. Someone being raised from the dead. You would still have then to prove it was done by a god, let alone the one of the bible.

[arphaxadish]

Thanks for helping me sort these things out. I used to be convinced by statements like those that Dawkins makes. I'm fairly new to philosophy. I didn't know it could be so fascinating. Keep up the great work, Greg.

[mollkatless]

you seem honest, but have you have given this subject an honest days work? What type of evidence are you seeking? Do you want to haul God into a Lab & run the standard tests?

As an atheist, you make the claim that God does not exist, what evidence supports that position? Don't give me a littany of complaints against the bible. There is a vid of a countryman of yours Dr. Peter Atkins debating William Lane Craig-this may provide you some of what you seek-curious to know your thoughts on it

[rossini55]

@mollkatless Some books relating to the atheist position can go into lots of philosophical detail but they are so bloody boring. Atheists are mainly trying to refute the unprovable and undisprovable.Just try writing a book to prove your lack of belief in unicorns is 'accurate and correct' and when the 'unicorn-believers' say you are making a 'truth-claim' you will see where the burden of proof lies.

[rossini55]

@mollkatless I mean you shouldnt have to be a Dr in philosophy or theology to be able to see that god claims have no evidence. That is intellecual elitism.You dont believe in Zeus but you dont have to read the Iliad or the oddesy or be proficient in Greek history. You dont have to be an expert of fairies to lack belief in them. You may see these arguments as unsophisticated or cliched, but that is because they are perfectly valid.

[rossini55]

@mollkatless I am not an 'intellectual' and dont claim to be. I am a man-in-the-street with common sense. His God Delusion book isnt a deep philosophical tome covering every aspect, but is easily accessible to and average Joe like me, and covers the main arguments. What truth claim did I make? I am a little confused by that. I disbelieve claims that theists say are true. I dont have burden of proof. Atheism is the null hypothesis. Not sure if this is 'smart' answer, but its clear

[mblackchurch]

God is perfectly holy and yet drowns his own children? (see the flood) :D I think we should let some of these mothers (Like Andrea Yates) go free and walk among others because, afterall, she killed her kids to save them, too. She was just following God's "perfect example".

This guy is spinning his own wheels...and he's stuck.

[mollkatless]

@rossini55 Let me see if I have this correct. You are saying you read dawkins book, and you are willing to lay your reputation as an intellectual on the line by saying you think it was a serious and scholarly effort?

As an atheist, you are making a truth claim (stop me if you're getting confused). So, support your truth claim with proof.

And please, I beg you, be smart in your response - if that is not possible then just color and don't reply at all - thanks

[rossini55]

Haha, all these theists try to refute Dawkins instead of trying to prove their god.

If you want to shut Dawkins up, PROVE GOD!!