The Historical Jesus - John Dominic Crossan

"The Dolorous Passion" depicts a very clear theology of displaced punishment, expiatory satisfaction, or vicarious atonement--and Gibson's insistent brutality simply films Emmerich's ghastly vision.

So this is what I ask of Gibson and the film's fans: What is the character of the God imagined in that theology? Mel Gibson has said his film is about "love and forgiveness." But vicarious atonement is not the same as loving forgiveness. Reading "The Dolorous Passion" or watching Gibson, we should certainly be moved to love or at least pity their Jesus, but why would we worship--let alone love--their God?

I do not believe in a God who could forgive gratuitously but actually does so only after Jesus has been beaten to a bloody pulp in our place. If I accepted--as I emphatically do not--Gibson's vision of this savage God, I hope I would have the courage to follow Mrs. Job's advice: "Curse God, and die" (2:9).

John Dominic Crossan

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[AlShaddai]

Who among us can make an absolute definition of Christianity? How can anyone say who is a Christian and who is not? Why is that exercise so important to some people who are self-disclosed Christians? They say, "Ah-ha, you don't believe in the Trinity; therefore you are not a Christian", or "You don't believe Jesus is God, so you can't be a Christian"? Who do they think they are? Do they doubt their own measuring up to be fully Christian?

[TheBlitMaster]

@Grinthor86 He's saying he loves the historical account of Jesus, but hates the dogmatic scripture surrounding him. What he means by Christian is someone who follows the philosophy and life of Jesus, while, when most people say it, they mean someone who believes in the New Testament. Many Agnostic historians are interested in the historical account of Jesus.

[Grinthor86]

How can you call yourself a Christian and deny the "litteral" resurection? I've heard it said and tend to agree with "to realy screw up Christianity you need a theologist".

[LIGHTRONIX]

So I'm curious, does John Dominic Crossan believe in God? Eternal life? This is all really interesting.

[EdM021]

The verb they used to say "they crucified him" originally meant pile-driving and fencing with pales. (staurow)

[jhgosnell]

I have yet to understand atonement theology...very strange to me still. I guess the idea is that someone else takes the bullet FOR you...for your sin. Maybe...really from a mystical standpoint, SPIRT, does take the bullet since you can release all of your sins into SPIRIT where they are transformed. From a mystical point of view, where Jesus represents ETERNITY, the sins can be put into Him and dissolved there. But, literally...it makes no sense on that level.

[webtvmaster]

Fascinating clip! Thanks for this

[cliffworks4321]

we need more viewers please!!!