Press TV-On the edge with Max Keiser-Max Keiser talking to Paul Craig Roberts-07-16-2010(Part3)

Max Keiser is on the edge of the financial news where future financial scandals, market crashes and monetary crisis begin, be there before it happens.

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[crumcon]

i like this show because the host let his guest speak his/her points. nice! watch Max Keizer report as well on RT. great show from Max

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto I'll get back to you on the forced situations. I'm still trying to figure out which system forces more on how many...

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto Agreed... I appreciate the thoughtful information for me to consider as well. I don't mean to drag everything into a discussion about capitalism, but I have a strong feeling that most of the things I am bringing up are intrinsicly linked, and not some dissociated circumstance. Also, I mispoke... you growing crops to create wealth could also be a form of competition, especially if you deprive others equal access to land. In fact, private property / ownership causes many problems. \ /

[LordDyhalto]

@LordDyhalto

Long term, you're right. We should shoot for broader horizons and aim for an era where humanity is only interested in the pursuit of science, the arts, and spreading our culture beyond earth.

I just think we're far from it, and a liberated truly free market would enable us to advance there faster than any socialist/communist forced-wealth-redistribution systems.

In short, I agree to disagree :)

[LordDyhalto]

@Ranger4564

Well, I can see this is going to go on forever.

Thanks for the interesting food for thought. Nice to see this didn't degrade into mud-slinging, though I apologize for almost provoking it.

I think your analysis of capitalism takes into account too many non-capitalist interventions like central bank's finite debt-based money and corporate suppression of innovation.

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto Point is, as long as you have surplus, you can have progress.

Regarding wealth... you could grow surplus crops, and hold them as a form of wealth. In that type of case, you are not depriving anyone... as soon as you sell it at lower cost than a competitor, you are. Wealth that I was thinking of is accumulation of currency, which is procured through profitable transactions, which intrinsically means there were people who lost on the deals. See what I mean?

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto I know people have been making tools for millenia, perhaps Thousands of centuries... so it's not like the capitalist of the past 400 years has any special claim to being tool friendly.  And note, many technological innovations came out of different parts of the world, with different systems of exchange. Both intellectually and technologically. My argument is, you don't need money and the threat of poverty to spur innovation... hell, the Greeks did it, and they had slavery. :o

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto No... profit creates wealth, as do some other transitory phenomenon, but the end result is, wealth is transacted in currency, and given that there is a finite currency, wealth requires that poverty exists somewhere. By the way, wealth and poverty are relative terms, they're not absolute. Wealth is in relation to not so wealthy and poor. Poverty is in relation to not so poor and wealthy. But wealth is not created out of nothing, it comes from the poor. That is why there are poor.

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto FYI, I'm 46, a lifelong socialist / communist. I've spent my entire life thinking about this stuff... since I was 2 and asked why there are beggars on the street, and why I'm not begging like them. I didn't learn from the Zeitgeist or Venus proj... they say a lot of what I have independently concluded, because any intelligent person, who openmindedly analyzes the worlds systems will essentially come to the same conclusions we came to. Capitalism is brutal; machines can be useful.

[Ranger4564]

@LordDyhalto You misunderstand. I am not intrinsicly lazy... in fact, I work very hard, but most of my energy is spent on things I'm passionate about. My point is, let's free people from meaningless work which is mostly paper shuffling and money laundering, for the sake of having a capitalist system... let's put people to real work, work they could enjoy, let's educate people to their fullest, not to fit a social role, but to fit their potential...honestly, I could go on but YT has these boxes.